Subject: TES o-rings
From: ACRE NL
Date: 12/18/2001, 1:25 AM


I agree with mike about the problem that i had with my TES
o-rings. Let me restate the situation that i had. I was one
of the first people who used  the TES rings and the rings
that i used were from paul lamar.these rings were used in the
rebuild of my 13B
that i was rebuilding for my CAR that was purchased for the
reason of obtaining some rotary engine experiance. i have
rebuilt other engines but never worked on or had any rotary
engine experiance at all.I felt that it was nessary to gain
as much experiance as i could with the rotary prior to using
it in an aircraft.Soon after i obtained this car it started
to smoke very bad, it was smoking a little bit when i got
it.i had only driven it about 50 miles total.It did not
bother me about that as the reason i got it was to get some
experiance with it,but i would have liked to got some more
operating time with it first.After pulling the engine and
during the tear down i discovered that the oil control
o-rings were almost completly disintegrated on the rear
rotor.I was nor able to work on the engine as much as i
wanted to due to other
things that nedded my attention plus som medical problems
that i was working thru.

As i had never put one of these engines together i had no
idea what to expect when i was torqueing the tension bolts as
per the shop manual. After the tension bolts were torqued
down their seemed to be a very small gap between the rotor
housings and both end housings. I did not feel that this was
correct as i could insert a thin blade of
my feeler gauge past the edge of the iron housing and in
between the rotor housing
part of the way around the engine.I Talked to Ed Anderson
about this and he checked his engine to be sure that  the
iron housing and the rotor housing did indeed
have no clearence between them when the engine was put
together.As i thought and ED confirmed ( thanks ED) their
should be no space where i had one.So the investigation into
the cause was started. This was before the engine was reinstalled.
Afer removing the oil pan i saw a small loop of the
silocone sticking out where a small section of cast iron had
broken out. all i could see was the loop of silocone.
After the tension bolts were taken out and the engine
opened up i was able to see the other side housing damage
where it had pushed into the water jacket. This was the photo
that i sent to you. I have some other pictures if any one is
interested in
seeing these please let me know.The O-ring grouves were
cleaned very well prior
the the first assembly. The sectional size of the o-ring
that was first installed had to have been too large and
caused trememdous pressure to have extruded the silocone out
of the stiffer teflon part of the ring and done the damage
that it did.I still believe that the idea of the TES o-rings
is a good one and i am using the ones Paul Lamar
sent to me ( part number unknown) in the inner coolent
o-ring position as it seems
to be ok .  Thanks    Tom Kimsey  478-922-1428 kimseyco@aol.com

If you still have that outer O-ring Tom please measure it for me.

Paul Lamar


Do I understand correctly that the cast iron wall failed while assembling
the engine, without ever running it to get it hot?
I measured the outer slot in my 1986 end housing and I get 0.116" width and
0.068" depth for a area of .0079, somewhat smaller than Paul's measurements.
Could it be that the teflon is so stiff that as the parts are torqued down,
the teflon would rather ooze out the gap than try to exactly conform to a
square corner? A 3/32 cross section of .0069 seems like not much clearance -
maybe 20% is better?

After re-reading Tom's original post, attached snip below, I am confused.
(Maybe because it's past my bedtime) Are we talking about the outer or inner
O-ring here? If it was the inner as indicated below, please disregard my
comments. My inner slot measures roughly .130 wide, it is not as
consistently square as the outer slot, parts of the inner slot measure .120
at the bottom and .140 at the top of the slot, it should be plenty of room
for a 3/32 O-ring.

Chuck Dunlap

(snipped from 12/16/01 message)
also their is another gentelman on our list who signs his e-mail as tom k.
i would appreciate it he would include his last name so as not to be
confused with me. thank you. please see the attached photo of the teflon
encapslated silocone o-ring damage to my engine that i was discusing with
you at the gathering at Tracy's house. I asked you in a later e-mail if you
remembered the part number of the ring that you sent to me( outer coolent)
and you told me that you could not remember or had lost that information. I
believe that the TES o-rings are a worth while improvement to this engine
and ended up using the TES o-rings at the inner position and using the stock
Mazda rings at the outer after i discussed this with Bruce Turrentine. I
have some more jpgs of the damage to my front and rear side housings if you
would like to see them. Tom kimsey


 
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