Subject: temp control fans
From: ACRE NL
Date: 5/12/2002, 12:14 AM


Marc Wiese wrote:

simple adj temp switch:
http://www.assetmfg.com/index.html

fancy IC temp vs ambient controler:
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0589/page1.html?src=suggestions
http://www.autospeed.com/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?category=705&

air-flow (motion) switch:
http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_1043/P_1/article.html

Marc Wiese


Has anyone found a source for those electric fans for the ferrari?
...Chrissi
Cozy Mk-IV 13B-turbo
 www.CozyGirrrl.com


SummitRacing.com has something that looks very much like the Spal
called a Derale Tornada. A 16 inch dia. is 2,175 cfm and cost $119.95.
3.9 inches thick.

Rough calcs gives an airflow through the rad (hopefully if
they rated it that way) of 26 FPS or 17 MPH.

That is one of, if not the highest rated fans in the Summit cat.

Paul Lamar


"Brian D. Cain" wrote:

I'd like to jump on this one, Paul, and give my input.

I've been experimenting with many different types of electric
fans in the
Rx7 automotive platform for quite some time.  I've used Hayden,
Permacool,
Vintage Air, and the like.  Last October, after shorting out my
not-so-old
$170, 16" aftermarket fan (I still have no clue how it happened), I went
hunting around the junkyards.  I figured I could find a fan
that would be
able to move enough air through the radiator (on a hot Texas summer day)
thinking those same factory fans would have to be good enough
for that since
they're sold on factory cars in varying climates and
environments.  After a
good 1/2 hr of kicking up dirt, looking under the hoods of
various junked
cars, I ran across the diamond in the rough -- A 1988 Pontiac
Fiero radiator
fan.  5 minutes and $10 later, I had my new test-fan ready to
try out as I
headed home for the install.  This fan, after studying it, has some
advantages, I think, over some of these aftermarket ones that are common
from Mr. Gasket, Summit, JEGS, and the like.  Here's my reasoning:

- As stated before, this fan is equipped on a factory car that's sold to
owners in varying climates and environments (read ambient
temperatures).  By
way of reasoning, it must be good enough to sustain reasonable (coolant)
operating temperatures whilst the vehicle has a running A/C system, on a
very hot summer day, sitting at idle engine RPM.
- This fan has a skinner and taller blower motor as compared to a common
thread with the aftermarket ones; they all have short, fat, and
wide blower
motors, potentially increasing the amount of air drawn through
the radiator
per that same space being used by fan blades.
- This fan, unlike aftermarket ones, uses a plastic shroud that
shrouds a
greater surface area.  Aftermarket fans, like the one in the picture as
posted by Paul, shrouds directly around the fan blades, making
the fan (in
my opinion) less efficient.

Of all of the fans I've used, I am by far the most impressed
with this $10
junkyard unit.  My water temperatures stay much colder (lower
180F's instead
of higher 180F's to low 190F's), they drop more quickly if in
the event they
do rise from having sustained engine load, as well as my oil
temperatures
staying much lower than they were when I was using a different
fan.  I'm not
sure of current draw, but it's somewhere inbetween 15A and 20A
when running
normally.  With the "hand over the fan" test, it's moving a
tonne of air;
substantially more than the older fans I used were.  This fan also fit
nearly perfectly on my Summit 22" x 19" radiator and does fit perfectly
around the factory radiator used on the 2nd generation Rx7.

I'm not sure how this plays out for you aircraft folk but I'd
take a look at
it and consider its merits.  Attached are two photos of this fan; one of
them mounted to my Summit radiator as well as one operating on a factory
radiator.  This should give you an idea of it.  Let me know if you guys
would like any other pictures of the fan.  I'm armed with a
digital camera
and can take some w/ measurements.

B

Don't forget an idling  car engine with the AC on is probably
generating less than 10 HP. A car moving down the free way at 70 MPH
is probably using less than 40 HP. Climbing the worst hill you can
find at legal speeds will use a max of 100 HP. All this
regardless of the rated
power of the automotive engine. The automotive companies do extensive
cooling system testing simulating the actual use of the automobile in
their desert proving grounds. One of the most severe test is idling
with the AC on in the hot sun next to a building so the cooling
system will not benefit from any stray breezes. I did some aerodynamic
testing for GM at the Mesa AZ proving ground and saw these test being
performed.

An aircraft taking off and climbing out is generating 150 to 200 HP.
Since the waste heat is proportional to the HP generated you can see
the problem. Most electric fans are near useless after about 30 MPH.

Paul Lamar

I thought the idea of adding a fan was to prevent overheating during idle
and taxi, thus allowing the air intake to be designed for climb and cruise
speeds.
One of us is missing the point.
John Slade
Cozy IV

"One of us is missing the point." Why do you think that? I don't see it 
that way. I think we are in total agreement. What did I say that made
you think otherwise? One of the two of us or one of all of us? :-) 

I fully agree with: "the idea of adding a fan was to prevent overheating during idle
and taxi, thus allowing the air intake to be designed for climb and cruise
speeds."

Paul Lamar
 
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