Subject: Weight Reduction.
From: ACRE
Date: 5/4/2003, 1:18 PM
CC: ACRE NL <rotaryeng@earthlink.net>, Aden Lindsay <aden@iinet.net.au>, Al Gietzen <alventures@email.msn.com>, Alan Tolle <alantolle@earthlink.net>, "Alfonso C. Fuller, Jr." <alfuller@webworldinc.com>, Allen Ervin <scorpion472@attbi.com>, Andy Hecker <AHecker@satx.rr.com>, ANTHONY AMBROSIO <AAMBRO@worldnet.att.net>, Archie Frangoudis <archie97@earthlink.net>, Barnhart <dsbarno@vbe.com>, Barry Gardner <barrygardner@mindspring.com>, Bernie Forrest 2 <bjforrest@optusnet.com.au>, Bill Eck <billeck@midsouth.rr.com>, Bill Garrett <bgarrett2@fast.net>, Bill Hyde <billhyde@bellsouth.net>, Bill Jepson <WRJJRS@aol.com>, Bill Phillips <bphillips@energy.com.au>, Bill Schertz <Wschertz@ispwest.com>, Blake Mantel <BMantel@snet.net>, Bob Avon <bobavon@icehouse.net>, Bob Bush <PUCKERBUSH@aol.com>, Bob Darrah <rdarrah@austin.rr.com>, Bob Earley <who_bear@mailcity.com>, Boyd <boydt@gbso.net>, "Boyum, Patrick L." <Boyum.Patrick@mayo.edu>, Brendan Fitzpatrick <floatinghome1@yahoo.com>, Brett & Tiana <btcam@telusplanet.net>, Brian & Pat Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>, "Brian D. Cain" <bdc196@attbi.com>, Brian Lee <tau-r@concentric.net>, Brian Trubee <Bktrub@aol.com>, "Briggs, Eugene" <N2628D@aol.com>, Bruce & Rosemary <ratherto@netins.net>, Bruce Ryan <bruceryan@email.msn.com>, Bryan Robinson <bry@abac.com>, "Bryan WIlkinson jr." <aa4bwi@aa4bwi.uklinux.net>, Buck Buchanan <AABUCKFLY@aol.com>, Bulent Aliev <atlasyts@bellsouth.net>, Carl Day <ced373@dfn.com>, Carl Murakami <murakamic001@hawaii.rr.com>, Cary-jbeazley <jbeazley@magma.ca>, Case Sinclair <sinkas@internode.on.net>, Charlie and Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>, Chris Cosman <chris@microcosman.com>, Chrissi Cozy Girl <CozyGirrrl@aol.com>, Colin Smith <cmsmith@bravo.net.au>, CRAIG KISSOCK <nesco-dck@juno.com>, Dale Smith <timepilot@earthlink.net>, Dave Stricker <snow_board@cox.net>, Dave Kuc <d.kuc@worldnet.att.net>, Dave Leonard <DaveLeonard@cox.net>, Dave Smith <mulford@earthlink.net>, david mccandless <daval@iprimus.com.au>, David Munday <munday@engr.uky.edu>, David Renaker <DRenaker@compuserve.com>, David Smith <birdman11@attbi.com>, Dean Head <banana@atlantic.net>, dean van winkle <dvanwinkle@royell.net>, DEBOER <DEBOER@sbcglobal.net>, Dennis Reynolds <der1@daimlerchrysler.com>, Dick Gregory <gregory-dr@excite.com>, Don Dunbar <ddunbar@echidna.id.au>, Don Moncrieff <moncrie@sympatico.ca>, Don Tauer <dtauer@alltel.net>, Doug Raupp <dougr@mitchellair.com>, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>, Ed pedersen <Edpedersen@aol.com>, Ed Sadler <Pebvjs@aol.com>, Ed Worthington <edworth@sugardog.com>, energietechnik <energietechnik@free.fr>, eric whiteside <erwhites@bellsouth.net>, Erik Duley <erik@systemcontrols.co.nz>, Ernesto Sanchez <res0391z@gte.net>, "Erwin.Hornemann" <erwin.hornemann@sympatico.ca>, Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>, Fly Bum <fly_it_slow@yahoo.com>, Francois St-Germain <cgtyy@yahoo.ca>, Frank Davis <ffdavis@earthlink.net>, Fred Breeze <Brecab@bellsouth.net>, Fred Osborn <fosborn@infowest.com>, Fred Vandeman <fvandeman@comcast.net>, frederick d kessler <acfkessler@juno.com>, Gary Buster <mrgcb@netcommander.com>, Gary Palmer <gpalmer@nortelnetworks.com>, Gary Van Leeuwen <corinth@iprimus.ca>, Gaylen Lerohl <lerohl@rea-alp.com>, George Elliott <gelliott@igs.net>, George Lendich <lendich@hypermax.net.au>, Gordon Haggard <gordonh645@cs.com>, grady kiehn <gpk@austin.rr.com>, Grant Taylor <686012@ican.net>, GW <gw.acre@shaw.ca>, Hank Huddleston <Bahahud@aol.com>, "Hanover, Lynn E" <lehanover@aol.com>, Hans Conser <conser@mcn.net>, Hans-Heinrich Duensing <Hans-Heinrich.Duensing@t-online.de>, "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley@AgelessWings.com>, Harold Bickford <smallwings@alltel.net>, Harry Sheldon <harry@cobweb.com.au>, "Harsha, Daryl E." <HARSHDA@mail.northgrum.com>, Henry Taylor <henry@hypermax.net.au>, Herb Sanders <hsanders@bellsouth.net>, "Hill, Scott" <Scott.Hill@delta.com>, Howard Wilkinson <owly@ttc-cmc.net>, Ian Beadle <ian@webace.com.au>, " Butch Ismael Diaz Sr." <AVIONAGUJA@att.net>, Jack Beale <jack.beale@att.net>, James Conaway <jconaway@netdoor.com>, james l coffman <tcoffman_47201@mindspring.com>, Jean Fouche <JeanF@nissan.co.za>, Jeff Andre <jandre@secondlookhomes.com>, Jeremy Solomon <jeremy.solomon4@gte.net>, Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>, Jerzy Krasinski <krasins@ceat.okstate.edu>, Jim Ahman <ahmanrv4@comcast.net>, Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>, Jim Brewer <alpha@concordnc.com>, jim mosur <jmosur@interlog.com>, Jim Shorty <SHORTYJIM@aol.com>, Joe Graham <Jgraham8751@aol.com>, Joe Schiferl <velocity@intaccess.com>, Joe Spencer <bjspencer@blomand.net>, John Beutler <Beutlej@aol.com>, John Bullers <midwestinfo@yahoo.com>, John Chelmecki <jchelmecki@aero.net>, John Gibbons <jorogi@shaw.ca>, "John K. Lewis" <AunGSut@aol.com>, John M Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>, John Moran <mti@wesnet.com>, Jonathan Lauter Rotary Power Marine <JMLBlues@aol.com>, "Jonathan P. Kuehne" <jpkuehne@earthlink.net>, Joseph Berki <joseph.berki@grc.nasa.gov>, "Jr, Mt" <n82630@yahoo.com>, Karlis Bets <bets@mail.anet.lv>, Keith Moore <phenixlc@adelphia.net>, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>, Ken Powell2 <ken.powell@fnf.com>, Ken Welter <rotary.coot@verizon.net>, kevin lane <n3773@attbi.com>, "Kevin R. Walsh" <krwalsh@yahoo.com>, Kique M Castillo <enriquemorcillo@yahoo.com>, "Koftinoff's" <tomkoft@columbiacable.net>, Larry Shull <larryshu@pacbell.net>, Larry Wiechman <wiechman@inwave.com>, Leon Promet <peon@pacific.net.au>, Les Orosz <lmorosz@myacc.net>, Limair Industry <limair@limair.com>, Lorin Thomason <lorin.t@mindspring.com>, Marc Wiese <Cardmarc@midsouth.rr.com>, Mark Curley <mcurley@tc3net.com>, Mark Steitle <msteitle@mail.utexas.edu>, Mark Wrathall <wrathall@aon.at>, Martin Morgan <martin@i-byte.com.au>, Max Calkin <mlcalkin@omahaweb.net>, Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>, MIchelle Wade <michelle.wade@bigpond.com>, Mike Collier <mcollier4@cox.net>, Mike Hurst <Mike1769@aol.com>, Mike Perry <mkperry99@cfl.rr.com>, Mike Wills <willsm@spawar.navy.mil>, Militch <Militch@aol.com>, Milo Smith <milos@1vision.com>, Monty Roberts three <montyr2157@alltel.net>, Oliver Hart <harttwo@visuallink.com>, Patrick Hicks <phicks@wcnet.org>, Patrick Stapelberg <patrick.stapelberg@elco.co.za>, Paul Conner <sqpilot@earthlink.net>, Paul Moller <Paul@moller.com>, Perry Casson <pcasson@sk.sympatico.ca>, Perry Mick <pjmick@viclink.com>, Pete Beddows <pete.rv613b@ntlworld.com>, Pete Rowe <prowe@flash.net>, Peter Cowan <cowcam@pipcom.com>, Peter Edwards <pedwards@nbnet.nb.ca>, Phil Reptile <reptile@speedfactory.net>, Philippe <philippe.chenevier@wanadoo.fr>, Pick Shovel <Picknshovel@aol.com>, Pier Ferro <Pier.Ferro@zanet.co.za>, Pine Pienaar <pine@CPro.co.za>, Power Sport Keith Holm <keith@powersportaviation.com>, "Quirk, Kevin KA" <Kevin.Quirk@bhpsteel.com>, Ralph Bruner <rsbruner3@earthlink.net>, Ralph Svendsen <rsvendsen@primus.ca>, randy / jane echtinaw <rjechtinaw@triton.net>, Ray Atkinson <RaynPatty@worldnet.att.net>, Ray Fiset Marcotte <rayfiset@globetrotter.net>, Ray Richardson <ray@powersportaviation.com>, "Raymond L. Cole" <rlcole@fedex.com>, Rich Gillen <ARMILITE@aol.com>, "Richard M. Martin" <martinrm@ncplus.net>, Rick cvp <cvp@Iowatelecom.net>, Rino Lacombe <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>, RJNSR <RJNSR@aol.com>, Rob Luce <rob@shepluce.com>, Rob W M Shipley <Rob@RobsGlass.com>, Robin Ream <robinream@earthlink.net>, Roger Pzone <Pzone2@aol.com>, Roger Robertson <rrrob@arn.net>, "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>, Roland Houin <rhouin@fourway.net>, Rolf Pfeiffer <rpfeiffer@rogers.com>, "Rosine, Steve" <steve.rosine@itt.com>, Royce Wise <royce@wayxcable.com>, Russell Kent <r-kent@ti.com>, "S. Myers" <SMyers4542@aol.com>, "Schemmel, Grant" <Grant.Schemmel@UTMC.Aeroflex.com>, Scott Gettings <sgettings@cfl.rr.com>, SMALE <smale@ncinternet.net>, Sprung <sprung@maplenet.net>, Steelframe <sales@steelframe.com.au>, "Steere, John" <JSteere@harman.com>, Steve Odle <sbodle@midwest.net>, Terry Adams <terrybuild@2xtreme.net>, terry s wilson <tswilson@uswest.net>, The Springer Family <springej@earthlink.net>, Todd Carrico <todd@thecarricos.com>, Tom Brown <tom.brown@swp.com>, Tom Brown <TOM_SUSIEBROWN@compuserve.com>, Tom Kendall <Tom.Kendall@att.net>, Tom Kimsey <KIMSEYCO@aol.com>, Tom Klinedinst <tkplane@fastransit.net>, Tom Parkes 2 <tparkes@earthlink.net>, Tom Smythe <tommy@bizpost.com>, Tony Cesarone <dhawk@execpc.com>, TONY SNOW <tony.snow@verizon.net>, Tracy Crook <tcrook@rotaryaviation.com>, "USAviator1@aol.com" <USAviator1@aol.com>, "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" <Hennie.van.Rooyen@honeywell.com>, Vance Jaqua two <vjaqua@dslextreme.com>, Vaughn Mann <vlmann@earthlink.net>, victor delta <vdelta@pacbell.net>, Vince Robertson <Vandbrobertson@cs.com>, " virgil n. salisbury" <virgnvs@juno.com>, Walter Luikey <seaweld@att.net>, Walter Williams <wgw75@attbi.com>, Washington Pasinato <wpasinato@uol.com.br>, Wayne Walter Peterson <berkut34@wi.net>, "Webre, Steven P." <swebre@unocal.com>, Wendell voto <jwvoto@highstream.net>, William Adkins <bilijo@erols.com>, William Frymark <wfrymark@mac.com>, "William L. Monroe" <wmonroe2@cfl.rr.com>, William Stevenson <steve1024@worldnet.att.net>, Al bwertz <Albwertz@cs.com>, Ronald Freier <rf7928@earthlink.net>, Doug Mueller <rotaryrx6@lvcm.com>, Bob White <bob@bobwhite-abq.com>, Holger Stephan <holger@selover.net>, David and Kathie <dkhart@junction.net>, Stanley Blanton <stanb@door.net>, Tony Troy <yah67890@yahoo.com>, skydoc <skydoc@wheatstate.com>, Dan Ruggirello <dan_ruggirello@yahoo.com>, Robert Hammond <robertlhammond@yahoo.com>, "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ram=F3n?= Fonseca" <RFonseca@Mossfon.com>, Shannon Spurgeon <shanspur@sctelcom.net>, "Del Johnson, North Point Solutions, Inc" <djohnson@north-point-solutions.com>, Duane Dieterich <Duane@dmdiet.com>, wadebush <wadebush@Iowatelecom.net>, STEVE HALL <shall@swfla.rr.com>, Chuck Dunlap <crayd@cableone.net>, Ernest Kerr <Ehkerr@aol.com>, Ian Beadle <ianb@ozzienet.net>, Bruce Turrentine <rotaryresources@aol.com>, Richard Sohn <unicorn@gdsys.net>, Howard Strope <HSTROPE1@nycap.rr.com>, The Downings <bytmee@gte.net>, Charles in Mississippi <two4t1@juno.com>, Sean Dennie <dennies@gno.edu.on.ca>, Rick Bettmeng <shootin@altelco.net>, oso kil <osokil@telus.net>, "Dr. Kenneth R. Johnson" <kjohnson@athenet.net>, David Barker <pbarker1@prodigy.net>, Andy Moore <amoore@edge.net>, Charles Davis <charlesd1@telkomsa.net>, " Don.Alexander" <Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com>, Lee White <leewhite@charter.net>, Steve Brooks <steve@tsisp.com>, Paul Brannon <fpbjr2001@yahoo.com>, phillip <phil1953@comcast.net>, Robert Pay <robertpay@hotmail.com>, bo bush <bobush@naxs.net>, Ken Knevel <ken_iberville@msn.com>, Richard Konnen <rkonnen@neandertech.com>, Del Ralston <drals1234@adelphia.net>, "Karl R. Szczypta" <karl_s@msn.com>, John Bright <johninvaus@yahoo.com>, RUTHY ANN <RUTHYANN@aol.com>, Richard Saiger <rsaiger@msn.com>, John Slade <sladerj@bellsouth.net>, tim tracey <dragonridge@yahoo.com>, James Freeman <MadScientist@covad.net>, Warren Truss <jindavik@frogshit.com>, "EDWARD A. CLOUSE" <flyman@gvtc.com>, Peter Laurence <plaurence@the-beach.net>, Byron Ward <wardb@engin.umich.edu>, Ron Morrison <rmrrisn@flash.net>, Bruce Rosowfske <bruce@rs-ins.com>, Art Luther <aluther2@tampabay.rr.com>, William Shaffer <shafferaviation@yahoo.com>, Ben Baltrusaitis <ben@gmpexpress.net>, Bill Blyleven <Bill.Blyleven@Dalsa.Com>, Lloyd Shirley <llsplane1@aol.com>, Tim Green <tgreene5@cinci.rr.com>, Art Rudko <Artrud@aol.com>, Vince Orton <vorton@pacstates.com>, Christopher Barber <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>, "Johnson, Darren" <DJohnson@us.britannica.com>, Ed Klepeis Tech Welding <klepeis@vci.net>, robert mayer <tokibob@yahoo.com>


Tracy Crook wrote:

Previous msg
SNIP  <<

I don't see any reason why at least 15 lbs can't be shaved off a gearbox
with the proper housing design.

While I applaud any efforts to reduce weight, I think we need a reality
check here.

The current RD-1B gearhousing weighs 9.75 pounds (total main & planet
carrier housing)
The current adapter plate weighs 7.75 pounds.
total  17.5 pounds

Reduce this by 15 pounds?

And Paul is right about messing with the E shaft.  Insane idea. Forget it.

Affordable light weight side housings are an ambitious undertaking and my
hats off to anyone who succeeds.  I'd certainly be in line for a set and
will volunteer to fly a set as soon as they are available.

Tracy Crook
tcrook@rotaryaviation.com
www.rotaryaviation.com

There is also the output and input shafts. I think where
the Ross scores is in the light weight of the hollow output shaft.
In theory lots of weight can be removed by making this shaft larger
in diameter and hollow. This also reduces the stress concentrations
where the shaft is connected to the planet carrier and to the prop
flange.

Also the Ross scores in the use of light weight needle bearings which
work fine at the low RPM's of the output shaft. Big ball or tapered roller
bearings are heavy. As far as I know nobody has complained
about the failure of the shaft needle bearings. The only complaint
we have on the Ross, other than defective machining from unit to unit,
is the lack of a helical sun gear thrust bearings. All other
bearings (needle bearings all) seem to be holding up fine.

The current load path is as follows. From the six planet
gear shafts down to the spline diameter... along the shaft and out
and up to the hollow prop dowel pin diameter.

Lets think outside the box. In theory the minimum
stresses and hence the lightest weight structure would occur if the
shaft diameter was the same or greater than the diameter of the
circle defining the planet gear shafts. Currently this diameter
is 3.5 inches for the 2.85:1 gear box. For the 3.15:1 gear box
it would be 3.25 inches. The diameter of the circle defining the
prop drive dowel pins is 5.5 inches as I recall.

Here is a 3D of what I would consider to be an optimum output shaft.
The prop thrust bearing would be two 3.75 ID 4.6 OD needle thrust bearings
back to back directly abutting the planet carrier.

The shaft could be hydroformed at low cost and bits and pieces
welded to it.

The prop bearing would be 5.5 inch ID 6 inch OD  type WJ
needle bearing with a limiting speed of 3400 RPM and a max radial
load of 35,000 pounds

The planet end needle bearing would be 3.5 by 4 with a limiting
speed of 4800 RPM and a max radial load 18,800 pounds.

Here too is a rendering of the current Power Sport gear box
for background.

Paul Lamar

Here is a clarification of what I had in mind.

Paul Lamar
 
The AirCraft Rotary Engine NewsLetter.  Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site. http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng/            
Copyright 1998-2003 All world wide rights reserved.