This probably happens when you start it up and move it for only
a few seconds and then shut off the engine. This is mentioned in
the manual as a no no. You are supposed to let it warm
up before you shut it off as I recall.
Paul Lamar
In the mean time if you want to try something buy one of these
four inch thick 1500 watt Pelonis room heaters and place it under
the
oil pan. It will not shut off when mounted horizontally under the
oil
pan.
Should heat the whole engine in about an hour.
Model HB-211 0307
http://www.pelonis.com/
Paul Lamar
I have been thinking about this some more and it is a very very
interesting
problem. Unlike a piston engine all the fuel that goes in the side
port
rotary stays in the side port rotary or is burned. When you flood a
piston
engine the excess fuel leaks down past the piston rings into the
oil
sump. No such thing can happened in the RX8 motor. As much as half
a
pint
of
fuel can accumulate in the rotor housing if you keep cranking the
engine
without it starting. No way will the engine ever start unless that
excess
fuel
is removed. Just like a lighted match dropped in a tank of gas the
mixture
is far far too rich to ignite. It takes 10 to 14 pounds of air
mixed
with
one
pound of fuel to ignite. 14 pounds of air is one heck of a lot of
volume
of air.
I have no idea how Mazda is going to solve this problem but they
better do
it
quick.
Paul Lamar
Mazda never did try and solve it. All my rx7s (all the gens) carb'd
or
FI had this malady. NEVER run it for a few seconds, and never ever
flood
it or you are in for a long wait. I would have thought that the rx8
took
care of this. Leaking fuel injectors are the most common cause of
the no
start condition. Some people fashion a valve to shut fuel off to the
injectors rather than pull and overhaul them (if disconnecting the
fi
fuse and cranking it for a few minutes doesn't work!
[Marc Wiese]
The big difference is the old engines will pump the excess fuel out
the exhaust port once you shut off the supply of fuel. The RX8 on the
other hand is designed to recycle raw fuel. The more you try to start
a flooded RX8 without shutting off the fuel the worse it gets.
Mazda could have the RX8 computer shut off the fuel if the engine
does
not start right away. The problem then becomes how to get the excess
fuel
out of the RX8 engine.
You cannot drill a small drain hole in the bottom of the rotor
housing
for several reasons.
A: That defeats the purpose of recycling raw fuel in the first place.
B: Combustion pressure will leak around the hole when the apex seals
pass over it and perhaps damage the apex seals over a long period of
time.
My suggestion to Mazda is install a computer controlled 12 volt
heating
element in the bottom of the rotor housing to vaporize the
accumulated
excess fuel.
In the mean time a plastic squeeze bottle and small hose inserted
in the spark plug hole should suck out excess fuel accumulated
in the bottom of the rotor housing. A small heat gun used in
electronic
assemble with a curved 1/4 inch OD copper pipe should also serve to
evaporate fuel wetted walls in the combustion chamber. These small
heat
guns are normally used to heat shrink tubing.
Paul Lamar
Paul, the way to clear out the unburned fuel is to remove the main
plugs, shut down the fuel injection and ignition by pulling a fuse, and
crank the engine. The plug holes are now peripheral ports and the raw
fuel will be quickly expelled.
Does not work on the RX8. Been there done that. Tried that.
Common problem on the 2nd generation RX-7, caused by either leaky fuel
injectors or low compression, but seems to be endemic to that
generation. I have never had a 1st gen flood on me. I think it is a
matter of how they have it tuned. Once you get a bunch of fuel in
there it seems to wash the oil off of the seals and reduce compression
further. Some oil in the combustion chamber helps the compression come
back up.
In fact sucking the fuel out trick might help the 2nd gen start faster.
One of my "practice" engines blew up the other day, I was ignoring the
check engine light, and then ignored the rattling noise because it
sounded a lot like yet another clutch disk falling apart ( I now think it
was serious detonation). It ran at reduced power, then a loud "tick",
then more reduced power, then another "tick", and extremely reduced
power. Car would not go more than 35 MPH. I suspect that I had a lean
condition on one rotor that finally broke the apex seals.
I'll send pics when I take it apart.
Hans
Was it a turbo Hans? Hopefully the new RX8 tech two piece seals from Mazda
for the older turbo engines will fix that problem once and for all.
I.E. fractured apex seals caused by detonation.
Paul Lamar
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