Subject: Oil pump cavitation
From: ACRE
Date: 5/22/2004, 9:01 PM


Bad engineering? Not on your life. They make the best cars in the world bar
none.

 Did you know that there are Hondas made here in central Ohio that are
shipped to Japan for sale? Yep, better engineered here with American and Japanese
engineers working together. They do attempt the most amazing bone headed things
here but they never see production. I know some of the American engineers that
work out there.

 A close look at the pump would turn on a red light for no other reason than
the number of sharp edges in the flow paths, not counting the phased rotors.
It is a dreadful design.

I am still not convinced that Francois had a real problem at only 6000 RPM.

I think he got to see a problem that is usually happening at much higher
revs.

They have been using airplane oil in the engine. And worse a multigrade 20-50
or 15-50 I forget.  No problem until they stress the oil and it starts
turning into 50Wt. Way too much plastic, and way too thick. Very little anti foaming
agent. They may not have a steel sheet between the pan and the block to get
the air out of the oil before it falls back into the pan. So the problem was
pressure could stay close to good, but oil cooling would go away. Typical of
foamed oil. Anyway, there is the probability that a similar oil may be added to
the sump in the future in error, so it must perform in that worst case
situation. And perform it will.

A good approach is to start with the worst possible situation, and get that
to work well, and the rest is down hill.

He's a pretty clever guy. The choice to dump the early pump is a good one,
and the double feed system on the new pump is proof to me at least, that they
had some bad feelings about the pump they had been using for years. They don't
change anything unless their feet are held to the fire.

You are running nine or ten thousand RPM.

Correct, 9,300 RPM on the internal pump, with 85 pounds hot.

Perhaps the pump he had was damaged.

They tested the used pump, a new pump, and a new 93 style pump, all on a new
piece of iron.

I'll believe it when I see somebody else get the same results with a similar
test rig.

After all he changed the pump to a new 93 version. 

Good idea huh?

I suspect the oil pump is bought out by Mazda just like they buy out the oil
 metering pump from Mikuni. BTW Diamond Engines also uses the Mikuni pump.

Probably is.

Why don't you use the Mazda Racing dry sump gear pump for road racing Lynn?
Here are some more shots of it. Surely you would be happy with this?

Poor design. Too small. Requires a special front cover. I think, only one
scavenge stage, but I don't remember. And the price was out of this world. I have
never seen one mounted on a race engine anywhere in 24 years of racing
Mazdas.

 Your picture may show the scavenge stage, but it didn't open. I can open JPGs.

We have a Peterson three stage pump. You would find it on a circle track
Chevy.
It is poorly designed. See a pattern here? The body is rectangular. It has
cracked along a corner in the pressure section twice. I now have a new Moroso
three stage pump for a backup. It is round. A good shape for high pressure. We
have 100 PSI from that Peterson, and have to do a bunch of work inside the
pressure section with a die grinder to get that. It was full of sharp corners.

Lynn E. Hanover

You are trying to run that Peterson pump at a pressure it was never designed for.
Chevies only need to run 40 psi or so.

Here are the pictures or the Power/Sport Mazda Racing dry sump system again. 
There are three stages. Looks like  it is designed for 100 psi.
If I were having trouble with the Chevy pumps I would bite the cost bullet
and try one of these. You could also build your own. It is not that hard.
I built an oil pump with just a mill and a lathe using off the shelf
three inch diameter pinon gear stock from Stock Drive Products.

Paul Lamar
 
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