Subject: 13b rotor weights
From: ACRE
Date: 9/1/2004, 7:09 PM


     >      > >>>>> Paul,
     >      > >>>>> Interesting conversation I recently had with the local engine
     >      > >> builder on RX8 Parts and their interchangeability with the RX7.
     >      > >>>>>
     >      > >>>>> He recently built a RX7 racing engine with RX8 rotors - I thought
     >      > >> the RX8 rotors were quite a bit wider ?
     >      > >>>>> I also thought the bearing sizes were different - but apparently
     >      > >> not !
     >      > >>>>> Anyhow all went well until he got to 10,000 RPM when the rotors
     >      > >> were binding on the endhousings, so they shaved (just a little) off the
     >      > >> sides of
     >      > >>>> the rotors.
     >      > >>>>>
     >      > >>>>> He also noted that the rotor side seals were much shorter( in
     >      > >> length) that RX7 side seals. He was concerned about too muck leakage but
     >      > >> they worked
     >      > >>>> OK he can
     >      > >>>>> only put down the extra gap in the side seal ( to the apex side
     >      > >> seals) as needed because the side seals were exposed to greater heat of the
     >      > >> side
     >      > >>>> exhaust and
     >      > >>>>> therefore expanded more!  Apparently some people put in bigger
     >      > >> apex side seals to make up the difference in gap.
     >      > >>>>>
     >      > >>>>> Also the apex seals were shorter in height so they cut the slot
     >      > >> deeper and put in Hurley apex seals.
     >      > >>>>>
     >      > >>>>> Speaking of Hurley apparently they have a 2 piece side seals (
     >      > >> very thin) which are very flexible and tough.
     >      > >>>>> I suggested using a bi-metal hacksaw blade and grind it down to
     >      > >> size as they are very flexible and tough - the new hacksaw blades out now
     >      > >> don't
     >      > >>>> break at all.
     >      > >>>>>
     >      > >>>>> Cheap side seal idea if anyone wishes to try it.
     >      > >>>>> George (down under)
     >      > >>>
     >      > >>> -> "Powell, Ken" wrote:
     >      > >
     >      > >
     >      > >>>> George, great info.  I have wondered if you could use the rx8 rotors in
     >      > >> an earlier 13b.  The lighter rotors would allow us to turn higher rpm
     >      > >> safely.  If you
     >      > >>>> are using a PP intake port this sounds like a less expensive route than
     >      > >> a new rx8 engine.  Looks like you would need rx8 rotors, seals, and
     >      > >> front/rear
     >      > >>>> counterweights to make this work.  Maybe the 86 - 91 counterweightes can
     >      > >> be used if the rotating assembly is balanced.  Does anyone know if weight
     >      > >> would have
     >      > >>>> to be added or removed from the counterweights to work with the new
     >      > >> rotors (seems like the weight would need to be removed from the
     >      > >> counterweights to balance
     >      > >>>> lighter rotors but sometimes things don't work like it would appear at
     >      > >> first)?
     >      > >>>>
     >      > >>>> Ken Powell-
     >      > >
     >      > >
     >      > >>> Dave Atkins had a 1993 3rd gen and an RX8 rotor at OSH. They appear to be
     >      > >> the same weight.
     >      > >
     >      > >
     >      > >> Ken,
     >      > >> I think Paul is correct with that assessment, I don't think you need to
     >      > >> lighten the counter weights with lightened balanced rotors. It's something I
     >      > >> didn't think of and will put that question to the 'boys at the shop' when I
     >      > >> speak to them next.
     >      > >> George ( down under)
     >      > >
     >      > > Subtle distinction here George. If in fact the rotors are lighter you do
     >      > > indeed
     >      > > need to change the balance weights.
     >      > >
     >      > > Paul Lamar
     >
     >      -Douglas Fir wrote:
     >      >
     >      > Hi George,
     >      >
     >      > The Rotary Engine Press paper I sent you mentioned the Renesis rotors are
     >      > lighter and illustration should less material in the inner metal walls.
     >      > However it might amount to only a few grams.  Can anyone out there weigh one
     >      > for us to confirm it?
     >      >
     >      > Doug in Japan
     >
     >      I can't tell you how many grams but it was about only an ounce or two.
     >      Something less than a 1/4 of a pound. A regular rotor is about 9 pounds.
     >
     >      Paul Lamar
     >
     >      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     >
     >      Here is a listing from the Maztrix site of rotor weights.  I also found a RX8 rotor weight of 8.2 pounds on RX8.com.  I'm not sure that I
     trust this
     >      8.2 lb weight- I thought that the new rotors were 8.7 lbs.  In any event this is a very significant weight saving.
     >
     >      Ken Powell
     >
     >                                                               Rotor Weight and Compression Chart
     >
     >
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     >
     >      This chart is included in our Website and Catalog for reference purposes. The weights listed are for production, unmodified rotors.
     >
     >                Engine                Year               Compression                     Weight (Grams)                       Weight (Pounds)
     >
     >                 12A                 76-82                   9.4                              4603                                 10.15
     >
     >                 12A                 83-85                   9.4                              4353                                  9.60
     >
     >                  13B                74-78                   9.2                              5253                                 11.58
     >
     >                  13B                84-85                   9.4                              5253                                 11.58
     >
     >                13B N/T              86-88                   9.4                              4553                                 10.04
     >
     >               13B Turbo             86-88                   8.5                              4553                                 10.04
     >
     >                13B N/T              89-92                   9.7                              4328                                  9.54
     >
     >               13B Turbo             89-92                   9.0                              4328                                  9.54
     >
     >                13B T/T              93-95                   9.0                              4328                                  9.54
     >
     >      NOTE: Weights are approximate, and include rotor bearing, but do not include any seals or springs.

     Ken are you using a Mac or something weird like that? Your computer makes hash
     out of messages :)

     Paul Lamar

     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     I use Microsoft Outlook.  Does it always cuase issues or just this time?   I 'pasted' the above table (which would have been HTML format) so maybe
     that is why it didn't come across correctly.     Ken Powell

It adds a bunch of spaces at the begging of lines that causes problems.

Paul Lamar
 
The Rotary Engine NewsLetter.  Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site. http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng/            
Copyright 1998-2004 All world wide rights reserved.