> > Lynn,
> > > Can you describe your dry sump set-up in more detail. What model of Peterson
> > > pump do you use and how it is driven?
> > > Could you also give us your thoughts on the best way to install a dry sump
> > > on a rotary for aviation use, if practical.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Graydon Woods
> > > Alberta, Canada
>
> > There are three common oiling systems used in racing.
> >
> > A) The stock system where a wet sump is used to collect used oil spilled from
> > bearings, cooling and pressure relief spill. The suction end of a positive
> > displacement pump is submerged in the sump as close to the bottom as is
> possible.
> >
> > The pump is turned by some mechanical means. A chain. A skew gear. A shaft
> > from the distributor. Also some engines have gerotor pumps built around the
> > crank or cam shaft. Same ideas just different drive systems.
> >
> > B) The external pump system is the same as the stock system except that the
> > pump may be an aftermarket pump with a single pressure section, mounted in a
> > convenient location on the engine so it can be driven by the crankshaft by a
> > toothed belt and sprockets. The external pump is used where the stock pump is
> too
> > small to supply the volume of oil required for the application, or has some
> > other problems, like the Mazda pump.
> >
> > C) The dry sump system is the same as the external pump system, with this
> > addition. Oil to be pressurized and fed to the engine is stored in a remote
> tank
> > rather than from the sump or pan.
> >
> > The pump used in this system has a pressure section with an internal pressure
> > control valve, and at least one additional section (two or more pumps built
> > on one shaft). The additional pump sections are used to remove oil from the
> > sump, pan or in the case of the rotary just a flat plate to seal the bottom of
> > the engine.
> >
> > In racing this system provides two primary advantages.
> >
> > First, is that ground clearance at the oil pan is a problem so with racing
> > engines. Since the engine is the largest mass in the car, good handling
> > requires that it be as close as possible to the ground. In a piston engine
> only
> > enough pan depth is used to clear the crankshaft. In the rotary, just a flat
> 1/4"
> > aluminum plate is used.
> >
> > Second, is that the pump is outside the engine, the oil pressure may be
> > adjusted to anything you want. A higher than stock oil pressure is helpful in
> oil
> > cooling the rotors and sweeping bearings of heated oil.
> > A large amount of excess volume capacity is available in the event of an
> > emergency. Both in pump capacity to maintain oil pressure in the face of a
> leak or
> > damaged bearing, and in oil capacity in the remote tank and line to the pump.
> > This is where a few extra seconds of power could make a very big difference
> > in an outcome. Oil pump speed may be adjusted by changing pulley size. The
> > pump can be serviced or changed without disturbing the engine in any way. A
> > large supply of pump styles and sizes and configurations is available. Except
> for
> > the rectangular Peterson, they are not experimental but are one of the most
> > tested
> > devices you could ever buy. Thousands of dirt modifieds, super stocks,
> > NASCAR, TransAm Off the road cars and trucks, and the list goes on, run these
> pumps
> > for thousands of miles of the most brutal road tests that can be devised every
> > week.
> >
> > The pumps are available with a number of mounting options, but most often
> > they are ordered with one of many flat plate tabs extending from one of the
> > elements that has two holes machined in it. One round hole and a second
> slotted
> > hole to allow for belt tensioning. The pump may be moved slightly even with
> the
> > oil lines connected, to accommodate some movement.
> >
> > The rotary (my opinion) has three locations to mount an external pump.
> >
> > Where a flat plate covers the pan area, a second thicker plate might be added
> > to mount the pump below or to one side in the area where the pan had been.
> > The 12A front cover provides additional stud locations that may be useful for
> > pump mounting.
> >
> > The original alternator location is a ready made location. On my GT-2 car the
> > Weaver Brothers single stage external pump is mounted there and works very
> > well.
> >
> > Along the drivers (spark plug) side of the engine. My GT-3 car has the three
> > stage Peterson pump mounted there. There are two large diameter tapped holes
> > in the front cast iron, and another tapped boss in the front cover close by. I
> > drilled an aluminum block to fit the three holes and drilled the block length
> > wise to take the bolts for the pump mounting tab. Works great. Never comes
> > loose.
> >
> > The dry sump system can be thought of as two separate systems sharing a
> > single shaft. The pressure system is the same as the basic external pump
> system.
> > So pressurized oil may be routed through filter (s) and cooler(s) and back
> into
> > the engine.
> >
> > The scavenge system is the part of the dry sump system that removes spent oil
> > and returns it to the storage tank. While the oil is again outside the engine
> > in this system it may be plumed through filter(s) and cooler(s)
> > before entering the storage tank.
> >
> > The storage tank may be nearly any shape, but cylindrical and tall is better
> > than square and short. There will be a large amount of air, combustion blow
> > by and foamed oil pulled out of the engine by the scavenge sections of the
> > pump. Generally, the scavenge section has twice, or close to twice the swept
> > volume of the pressure side of the pump. A balance hose connects the engine
> > crankcase to the storage tank. This line need not be of large diameter because
> it is
> > usually flowing air from the top of the storage tank into the crankcase.
> > You will have to seal up the dipstick tube as well. There will be nothing to
> > measure, and air and dirt may be pulled in around the seal.
> >
> > The storage tank may be installed in any convenient location. The greater the
> > distance from the pump, the larger the hose diameter must be. There is only
> > ambient air pressure to force oil from the tank to the pump.
> >
> > For example, the NASCAR people have the tank in the rear of the car beside
> > the fuel cell.
> >
> > As you can see there are other thoughts to add up here. A tank mounted lower
> > than the pump, and you have a suction lift situation. Pumps like a supply of
> > oil that is at a positive pressure already at the suction port.
> > A pump that is supplied from an oil level lower than the pump cannot perform
> > as well as a pump that is fed oil from a level higher than the pump. So a tank
> > mounted closer to the pump rather than some distance away is better. A tank
> > mounted so that an oil level higher than the pump inlet rather than lower. A
> > tank that is round rather than any other shape. (Expended fire extinguishers
> > work well.) Tall in shape so that the oil level can be higher than the inlet.
> > And so on.
> >
> > You may construct a system that violates every rule and it will still
> > outperform the stock pump.
> >
> > It is also possible to use the stock pump for pressure and a second external
> > pump for scavenge.
> > Just imagine a dash 12 90 degree fitting welded to the flat sump plate
> > (6061-0) or a bung welded to the plate in line with the stock oil pickup tube
> > location.
> > This could provide additional space for that extra cooler volume you need.
> > This could also make the stock pump more effective because you eliminate the
> > sharp edged suction tube and the restrictive bug screen of the stock system.
> >
> > There is a down side.
> >
> > We (me, my wife, driver Terry Whitlock and my friends) have raced the rotary
> > engine since 1980. We have never damaged an engine to an extent that it could
> > not be reused. We have made every mistake it is possible to make in the
> > building, installation and support of these things and the design has saved us
> from
> > ourselves in all but a few cases.
> >
> > We raced the early engines from the 70s with the small oil pump. We gleefully
> > turned them up over 9,000 RPM week after week, with no penalty at all. My
> > bridgeport's were on the small side, and we made under 220 HP. We would shine
> up
> > the bearings on an over wind now and then. We had no rev limiters back then,
> > and we did get calls from The "Guinness Book of World Records" wanting to know
> > how high we turned it that time!
> >
> > One memorable day the driver came out from under the bridge at Road Atlanta
> > and at top speed started down the face of the hill. We had to brake hard and
> > shift to 4th for that turn so during an attempt to shift to 5th, the driver
> > selected 1st gear. The damn Hewland went right into gear and the real wheels
> > locked up.
> >
> > Thus teaching the driver a lesson he still remembers. (He doesn't like dog
> > ring transmissions).
> >
> > The Smiths flyball tach only has numbers up to 10,000 RPM. On the tach face,
> > Zero is at a stop peg in the
> > 6 o'clock position. the 10,000 mark is at the 2 o'clock position. The
> > tattletale pointer was hard against the back side of the zero stop peg at 6
> o'clock.
> > The Guinness people called right away. What was that?
> >
> > Maybe 16,000 RPM??? Maybe 18,000 RPM??? Yes, a new record for sure, Save us
> > the pieces and don't reset the Smiths, we need a picture.
> >
> > Well, there were no pieces. The car went another lap, and the driver reported
> > that the power was down a bit. (No shit Sherlock Holms). We had no spare
> > engine. We also had no compression and the engine would not restart after
> cooling
> > off. It had stuck the corner seals in their holes when the crank flexed into
> > an "S" shape and dragged the rotor corners. We sanded the rotors and cast iron
> > a bit and installed used corner seals, reset the tattle tale and raced the
> > car. No problem.
> >
> > I doubt that you could turn even a bare Continental crank shaft 16,000 RPM
> > without damage let alone the assembled engine. But, I run on as usual.
> >
> > The dry sump system adds complexity and weight. It can become very expensive.
> > Maybe $1,500 for a pump. Not many people will have any experience working on
> > the system outside of racing circles.
> > For engine RPM below 8,000 there is no added value. There are modifications
> > that can be made to improve the stock pump and components. The large sized
> > pressure sections for both gerotor and gear types, have high pressure pulse
> > peaks, and as a result, are very noisy. The Mazda pump has two shaded sections
> to
> > cut down on noise. You can install a new Mazda pump by removing the front
> > cover. Use a new chain and pump. Drill new attachment screws for safety wire.
> Pack
> > the new pump with clean bearing grease, so it will prime instantly. The stock
> > pump is fine up to about 7,000 or a bit more. The only problem at or above
> > this is the pickup and bug screen cause oil foaming. And you can fix that
> too.
> >
> > Lynn E. Hanover
Kelly Troyer wrote:
Lynn,
Would you happen to have additional info (photos,etc) on the
modifications to the stock 13B oil pump? This is one area that has
not been completly explored in this forum although you have
covered mods to the pickup tube before. Are there some more of
the magic tricks you would share with us?
.....Inquiring minds would like to know!
Best Regards,
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2
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