Subject: Possible fuel injection solution
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 10/26/2005, 5:21 PM
To: AA-me


        I was looking through the Lancair Legacy manual pdf
        and found this fuel pump. Anybody know what brand it is?
        Apparently it has the pressure regulator
        built in. Since it is a mechanical fuel injection system I don't
        know what the system pressure is yet.
        Sure simplifies the low wing fuel plumbing and loses the external
        pressure
        regulator. The two layer selector valve is still used to reroute
        the return fuel to the tank that is being drawn from.
        An essential feature.

        Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.

        Paul,
        I think it is a Dukes pump, AKA 2-speed Continental fuel
   pump.  You can
        get one from Lancair for $745.

        Mark S.


        Is that all? :) Do you know the system pressure Mark?
        Of course you will pay a couple of hundred for a good fuel
        pressure regulator anyway.

        Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.


        Paul,
        Not sure of the pressure, but I was told that Continental fuel
        injection
        systems run significantly lower pressures than auto systems.  I
   don't
        have any sources to verify that though.

        With the Dukes pump, wouldn't you still have the same problem
   with air
        getting trapped between the tank and the fuel rail causing engine
        stoppage?  This is why I installed a bleeder circuit that
   bypasses the
        regulator.  Tests show that it solves that problem.  I read a
   flight
        report done during the 40-hour fly-off period of an ES that
   almost had
        to do an emergency landing on I-70 in Colorado after intentionally
        running a tank dry, and then being unable to get a
   restart.  Activating
        the high pressure circuit of the Dukes pump finally got it started.

        Mark S.


        Yes I guess you could get air trapped between the pump
        and the injectors but it should escape through the injectors
        when they are pulsed. On the other side of the pump it
        is a different story.

        High pressure pumps are notoriously hard to prime. That is why
        they must be as close to the tank as possible.
        The ultimate is having the pump in the tank like they
        do it in the automotive world.

        Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.



   Ok, so apparently add another thing I need to plumb into the fuel
   delivery system -- a pressure regulator.  It's a real problem that I am
   so clueless on EFI fuel delivery system design -- I keep discovering
   things I need.  This area is a missing piece on the website, Paul --
   not
   a word to be found.  What little I have found elsewhere on the web is of
   little use as well.  Ah well... I suppose I will muddle through it all
   eventually.

   Here's my design so far -- those who have a clue, please chime in &
   tell
   we where I am going astray...

   Mark

   Very important. Please ask. Not everything is on the web site
   yet. Mark Wrathal has a good do's and don'ts  on his web site.

   http://members.aon.at/wrathall/rotary/

   Looks like the high pressure pumps need to go next to
   the shut off valve before the gascolater. The one way valves
   are built into the pumps. What brand of pump are you
   using?

   Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.



Why would the gascolator need to be on the pressurized side of the
system?  The information I've found has not suggested that design as a
requirement.  BTW - you have the wrong Mark on the graphic -- (there are
too many Mark's here lately!).  The other Mark bought the the fuel
pumps, so I'll need to either go look at them, or ask him what they are
-- unless you remember them (since you had them until just recently!)

I will go review the web address you suggested (Another Mark! Yikes!) &
see how that changes my current design.

Thanks,

Mark (As in Mark & Mark)

The gascolator needs to be on the pressure side because
the pumps have trouble sucking. If you have water drains in the
tanks you probably don't need the gascolator. Is this 25 gallon
tank in the cowl? If so that helps as the pumps now have a head to
work with assuming the high pressure pumps are mounted under it.

BTW Yes I got that figured out. See my last message on last names.

Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.

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