Subject: Dave Leonards cooling system
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 2/14/2006, 11:41 AM
To: AA-me



         >
         >      > This is Dave's current system. He is not entirely happy
         >      > with the water cooling.
         >      > Air flows through the inter cooler on the left side and
        the oil
         >      > cooler on the right side and then through the 2 inch
   thick rad
         >      > mounted below the engine and out the exit below the cowl.
         >      > The air is also heated by passing over the turbo charger
         >      > and exhaust manifold before it flows through the rad.
         >      >
         >      > Does anybody have any suggestions what Dave could to to
        improve
         >      > the water cooling?
         >      >
         >      > Oil cooling and inter cooling are fine.
         >
         >     Leave the oil cooler and intercooler ducted & positioned
        as-is. Leave
         >     the radiator positioned as-is, but add a chin scoop and duct
        to the
         >     current backside of the radiator. Let the airflow
   through the
        radiator
         >     be reversed from the current pathway. Add vents on the
   top of
        the cowl
         >     slightly ahead of the firewall. If the windscreen is
   near the
         > firewall,
         >     that area of the cowl should be a lower pressure area
        (compared to the
         >     rest of the cowl; it's still high relative to the static
   port).
         >
         >     Russell Kent
         >
         > Russel,
         > I like that Idea best so far, as it would be the easiest to
   implement
         > and would leave the cleanest looking cowl..
         >
         > There is little doubt that the other suggestions could be
   made to
        work
         > as well.  Some would be impossible because of limited space.
         >
         > However, I would like to now throw out some other points for
         > consideration:
         >
         > 1) The point of improving my cooling system is all about going
        faster.
         > After all, it works perfectly fine (em... recent incident
        excluded) to
         > get average performance for an RV.
         >
         > 2) up above 200 mph. (the speed I now travel at)  reduction
   in drag
         > becomes more important than increases in power
         >
         > 3) Cooling drag is 10% of overall drag - give or take.
         >
         > 4) Therefore, maintaining low cooling drag, or decreasing
   it, should
         > take priority in any planned improvements - for reasons of both
        speed
         > and economy.  After all, we want to disprove the rotary's
        reputation as
         > a gas gussler.
         >
         > So given the 'minimize cooling drag' premise, I submit that:
         > 1)  All air used for cooling must be heated to the maximum
   extent -
         > otherwise it is waisted cooling drag.
         >
         > And I know from measuring temperatures in my cowl that:
         > 1) The intercooler and oil cooler add very little
   temperature rise to
         > the incoming air, about 10-20 deg.  There is plenty more cooling
        to be
         > had from it (as is proved by the relative success of my current
        system).
         >
         > So, until convinced otherwise, I am more or less committed
   to the
         > minimization of cooling drag and the re-use of my
   intercooler and
        oil
         > cooler air for at least some of the water cooling.
         >
         > That being said, improvement is needed.  Clearly, more air
   is part of
         > that solution.  The other part of the solution appears to be
   more
         > radiator volume - used to obtain more cooling from each bit
   of air.
         > Weight penalty yes, but still more efficient IMHO.
         >
         > Paul is a big proponent of a cowl flap, and I agree.  As soon as
        things
         > are cooling so well that I need to warm things up in cruise, it
        will be
         > a simple matter to add a cowl flap to close down the air outlet.
         >
         > A spray system is still an excellent addition for augmenting
   climb
         > cooling without adding drag.  Used mostly for bragging rights
        etc. but I
         > have not ruled that out yet.
         >
         > And that's all I know.  (well, pretty sure of anyway  :-)
         >
         > BTW, I have also come to accept the wisdom that the rotary
   does not
         > tolerate temperatures above 180 very well.  My previous
   red-line was
         > 230  and I would not start reducing power until it hit 210.
   In the
         > future, my "reduce power" limit will be 190 and redline
        (dramatically
         > reduce power) will be 210.  The goal is to not get there
   very often.
         >
         > Unfortunately, that is the big problem with the turbo. I can
        always make
         > more power.  And BHP is like money:  not matter how much I
   have, I
         > always would like a little more.
         >
         > --
         > Dave Leonard
         > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
         > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
        <http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html>
         > http://membersaol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
   <http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html>
         >
         >
        Dave,

           Bearing in mind the rule of thumb that a Paul uses about the
   effect
        higher temperatures decreasing the available cooling I think you
        would be
        better off  not preheating the air for your coolant. You are right
        though
        about about making the air going into your intercooler and oil
        cooler do
        more work. Why not use less air into these, idealy to the point
        where the
        outcoming air is at some maximum desirable level. Use the remaining
        unused
        air and possibly a little more to cool the coolant using properly
        designed
        ducts. This way your radiator is seeing cooler air thus
   allowing the
        use of
        less air overall.

        John



   John, that is exactly what Paul suggested.  And to some extent you are
   correct.   The problem is then that oil and especially intercooler
   cooling becomes insufficient.  Both oil and air have low coefficients of
   heat transfer and therefore tend to be more finicky than water.

   But the real reason I cant do that is that there is no room behind
   either for a duct, and no good way to duct the incoming air around them
   to the rad.

   I appreciate all the help.  The radiator is going to get some more fresh
   clean air, the exit will get bigger, and there will be more radiator
   volume.  The partially used air will do its part to help out, and there
   will be no more cooling problems.

   Have no fear I will not stop until I can cool at least 210h.p. on a hot
   day - yet I will not have to stay up at night worrying about all my
   waisted cooling drag.  :-)

   BTW, here are the numbers I am working out:
   By adding 1/2 inch thickness to my rad, the core volume will go from 540
   cu.in <http://cu.in>. to 720 cu.in <http://cu.in>.
   (I may add a full inch, bringing the volume to 900 cu.in <http://cu.in>.
   - I'm open to suggestions on this issue)
   AND I will increase the frontal inlet (and exit) area by 50%  (worth
   about 80h.p. worth of cooling) - all of that going directly to the
   radiator.
   AND it will fit and only take a couple months to do the fiberglass work.

   Anyone think that's not enough?

   --
   Dave Leonard
   Don't want to rehash the old thick vs thin rad again but I agree
   with your proposed approach but there may be a better way (not
   necessarily easier though).

   The hit you are taking with the heat from the exhaust plumbing is
   probably greatly underestimated here.  My guess is that if you could
   find a way to isolate that and duct it out into the existing outlet
   area you would be close to your goal without making any other changes.

   Tracy Crook


The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site. http://www.rotaryeng.net
Copyright 1998-2006 All world wide rights reserved.