Subject: Super charging
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 8/26/2006, 4:48 PM
To: AA-me


    > Gordon,
    > You lose the weight of the gearbox but gain the weight of the
    > SUPERCHARGER and all it's plumbing and mounting hardware. I'd bet it
    > would be close to a wash on weight, and the wear aspect would be MUCH
    > higher. Paul hammers on this all the time but I'll take over this
   time.
    > The rotary is NOT a piston engine! There is no reciprocating
   motion, and
    > higher e-shaft RPMs are NOT a wear problem. As has been said many
   times
    > Mazda instrumented the engine and found that bearing load at 6000 RPM
    > was NIL, ZERO, NADA, NOTHING. The compression and power loads
   balanced
    > out. I plan to cruise at or slightly below that figure using a 2.85:1
   PSRU.
    > Secondary item: Paul the figures on the screw Lysholm
   supercharger are
    > true. The efficiency improvement lead to the NHRA banning them at one
    > time. I don't know it that is still true or not.
    > Bill Jepson
    >

   Hi Bill,
   Regarding the 'no bearing load at 6000 rpm' means that the inertia
   force of
   the
   pistons equals the force generated by the combustion pressure. The
   pressure
   curve
   at combustion has a very sharp, short duration peak and falls off quite
   rapidly
   at both sides of the curve. Also keep in mind that at the other
   side, when
   the
   eccentric is at the 'bottom' meaning at the side of the ports, the full
   inertia
   load of the piston is loading the bearings, similarly to an RPE at
   BDC or
   rather
   at TDC during open valves.

   There are always bearing loads, no matter at what speed the engine
   runs. Of
   course, running near 6000 rpm reduces the bearing load near TDC, again,
   similar
   to an RPE. (Just don't want to get the wrong impression out there.)

   Rolf


   Rolf,

   Thanks for that piece of technical insight. I always wondered about the
   rotor's inertia with that elliptical orbit -- besides the circular
   motion,
   there is an up and down movement from one end of the oval to the
   other that
   no doubt generates sizable inertia with that big rotor.

   As you correctly pointed out there are always bearing loads at any
   rpm --
   but it's clear that they go down to their minimum at just under
   6,000 rpm,
   and then go back up from there.

   Still, looking at that graph, the difference between 4500 rpm and
   6000 rpm
   is not that great, about 25 percent less (160 kg/cm2 to 120 kg/cm2). The
   graph doesn't show a data point at 3500 rpm but if we assume that it
   continues in a straight line, we can interpolate about 180 kg/cm2 at
   3500
   rpm. So the bearing load at 6000 rpm is only 33 percent less than at
   3500
   rpm.

   Hmm, maybe I was too quick to throw in the towel on the direct-drive
   supercharged engine.

   Still, as Paul pointed out, the thrust bearing might not be able to
   take the
   propeller loads.

   Another thing is the side loads from the prop, especially if you need to
   have a long prop hub. And even if you use a short prop hub, your
   engine will
   be farther forward, thus moving your CG forward as well.

   So yeah, there are problems with this approach, like I said. Still maybe
   this discussion will have been of benefit if there are some who might be
   considering a direct-drive option. At least they will have some
   points to
   consider.


   Regards,

   Gordon.



   Paul,

   I know you will jump in to correct me, so I will correct myself. I
   know the
   rotor has a perfectly round orbit around the eccentric, not elliptic.

   What I was referring to was the path of the outside of the rotor,
   which does
   describe an oval -- following the shape of the oval housing.

   Now I may be wrong on this, but aside from the rotational momentum
   of the
   rotor, I think there is some linear momentum there as well, as the
   mass of
   the rotor accelerates from the bottom of the oval to the top, then back
   down, etc.

   The effect is like having an arm on the eccentric that translates the
   rotational motion into reciprocating motion -- but instead of an
   arm, it is
   the shape of the rotor, triangular, with a thin pointy part and a
   wide part,
   that makes possible the up and down movement in the oval housing.


   Regards,


   Gordon.

   It is not really an oval housing either. It is a trochoid
   housings.

   "I think there is some linear momentum there as well, as the mass of
   the rotor accelerates from the bottom of the oval to the top, then back
   down, etc."

   No it does not. The center of gravity of the rotor travels
   in a pure circle. There is absolutley no linear momentum.

   BTW you are not alone. Some very very smart engineers still
   don't understand the rotary. As I said in my article below
   the engine is subtle.

   Paul Lamar

   --------------------------------------------------------------
   -How the Wankel Works Rev. 1 copyright by Paul Lamar

   The Wankel rotary consists of a three sided rotor moving in a
   modified oval
   chamber or rotor housing. There are at least two holes in the walls
   of one
   side of the rotor housing. In the other side of the rotor housing
   there is
   at least one spark plug. One hole is used as an intake port and the
   other as
   an exhaust port. Just like a one cylinder two cycle piston engine.
   The rotor
   rotates around the center of the eccentric on the output shaft while
   at the
   same time rotating around its own axis. This is very similar to the
   way the
   earth rotates around the sun while rotating around its own axis. The
   engine
   is sometimes called a planetary engine for this reason. The rotor
   rotates
   one third as fast about its own axis as it does around the center of the
   output shaft. Actually what is happening is the center or CG of the
   rotor is
   moving in a circle around the center of the output shaft while the
   output
   shaft rotates. Very very clever on the part of Felix Wankel to
   invent and
   engine that uses this motion.

   Many engineers and mechanics that should know better still think the
   rotor
   translates, reciprocates or wobbles in the rotor housing. Nothing
   could be
   further from the truth. The key is to think only of the center of
   the rotor.
   That is the center of gravity of the rotor and what that does is all
   that
   counts. It rotates around the center of the output shaft pure and
   simple.
   The wankel is a subtle engine. This is motion very important when it
   comes
   time to balance the engine. Since there are no reciprocation parts
   what so
   ever it is possible to completely balance the Wankel engine just like a
   turbine or electric motor and unlike any piston engine despite some
   claims
   to the contrary. The rotor is balanced around it own axis. The front
   rotor
   balances the rear rotor as they are 180 degrees apart on the output
   shaft.
   That leaves a small couple which is finally completely balanced by the
   counter weights.

   As this motion is taking place the tips of the triangular shaped
   rotor are
   passing the ports in the housing. As one tip, call it tip 1, passes the
   intake port in the rotor housing the face behind tip 2 starts to
   draw in the
   fuel air mixture. Call it face or chamber A. When the next tip call
   it tip
   2 passes the intake port the mixture is captured and starts to
   compress. As
   the chamber continues around the housing it encounters the spark
   plug and
   the mixture inside it is fully compressed. The spark plug fires and the
   chamber starts to expand imparting the pressure energy in the burning
   mixture to the output shaft. As the rotor continues on around tip 1
   passes
   the exhaust port and the burnt mixture starts to leave chamber A. This
   completes the four cycles for chamber A. In the mean time chamber B and
   chamber C are completing various cycles of this same sequence
   simultaneously. Since the rotor is rotating one third as fast as the
   output
   shaft only one firing event and one chamber's volume worth of air is
   mixed
   with fuel and processed per revolution of the output shaft. This is
   the same
   as a one cylinder two cycle piston engine of the same displacement
   or a two
   cylinder four cycle piston engine of twice the displacement.

   This three chamber simultaneous action is the reason the Wankel
   engine is
   so light and compact for the power it is able to generate.
   Furthermore the
   forces in each chamber due to the pressure in each chamber are
   completely
   contained in the one piece cast iron rotor. In a four cycle piston
   engine
   this is not the case. The compression force must pass down a
   connecting rod,
   into the crankshaft and up another connecting rod into another
   chamber that
   is expanding and extracting power from the burning mixture. This makes
   piston engine force paths and consequent stresses far far more
   complicated
   and problematic than the wankel engine. In fact the Mazda Wankel
   engine is
   so robust, structurally speaking, it is possible to get as much as
   400 HP
   per rotor. This HP per rotor number is still increasing while auto
   racers
   around the world are still developing the engine.

   Although the wankel has similarities with a two cycle engine,
   particularly
   in regard with the way the porting mechanism works, it is in no way
   a two
   cycle engine. All four cycles are continuously taking place
   simultaneously
   and those are intake, compression expansion and exhaust.


I think about it like this- everything in the wankel spins- the e-shaft
spins, and the rotor spins on the e-shaft eccentric lobe. The rotor
spins exactly 1/3 the speed of the e-shaft, and it is this that
describes the shape of the trochoid/hypotrochoid shape. Nothing goes
back and forth, just around in circles, the trochoid shape just follows
the path that the apexes of the rotor follow on their revolutions. Felix

Wankel was a genius. The concept is simple, but not obvious. The steam
engine gave rise to the internal combustion engine-
pistons, cylinders valves, reciprocating motion. These things were
around way before steam engines. Da Vinci designed pumps with these
items. So I can see where the idea of the internal combustion piston
engine came from.

But the Wankel- where did Felix Wankel pull that idea from?

Brian Trubee




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