> >>   Perhaps the comparison test was about performance.  I'll
    wait and
     > >>     see what
     > >>     he says.   AGE-85 is formulated with aircraft in mind, using
     > >> many of the
     > >>     performance enhancing additives that gasoline normally has
     > >> including
     > >>     a wee
     > >>     bit of biodiesel, whereas Baylor's E-95 (at this point) is
    just
     > >>     denatured
     > >>     ethanol.  Don't race cars run on methanol?
     > >>
     > >>     Doug Fir
     > >>
     > >> Doug,
     > >>  Yes racecars usually run Methanol, which is even worse energy
     > >> wise.
     > >> Simple fact is gasoline comes in at 115,000 BTU/gal and ethanol at
     > >> 84,000 BTU/gal, or about 73% the energy available in a gallon of
     > >> gasoline. Gas is hard to beat. Some of the effects of burning
     > >> ethanol
     > >> may help bring it closer to gasoline. Tolerance of higher
     > >> compression
     > >> without detonation or per-ignition, and less thermal energy wasted
     > >> to
     > >> cooling do help, but ethanol comes in with a large gap relative to
     > >> gasoline. It's a cleaner burning fuel but you can't make the
     > >> physics
     > >> change much. The rotaries tolerance for a wide range of fuels is
     > >> useful,
     > >> but spark ignition bio-diesel might do you better for milage.
     > >> Bill Jepson
     > >>
     > >
     > >
     > > Spark ignition bio-diesel is a new one on me. Please explain.
    Do you
     > > mix it with gasoline, and if so in what ratio?
     > >
     > > #2 diesel has much more energy than gasoline. The biodiesel I am
     > > familiar with has slightly less, but still more than gasoline.
     > >
     > > Doc Custer
     > > Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist
     > > Building RV9-A. Fuselage
     > >
     > > CW and perhaps John
     > > The Wankel will run on direct injection diesel fuel
     > > as long as you fire it with a spark plug.
     > >
     > > CW and perhaps John Deere were running the engine on heavy fuel
     > > years ago. there are many SAE and other tech papers on the subject.
     > >
     > > Wankel Gmbh demonstrated such a turbo charged engine at OSH
     > > several years ago. Here are some pictures from the factory
     > > in Korf Germany
     > >
     > > Mistral in Geneva Switzerland is/was also working on a
     > > NA such engine. Here are some pictures of the engine
     > > on the Mistral dyno in Geneva.
     > >
     > >
     > > Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
     >
     >
     >
     > Wow!
     >
     > I have trouble seeing biodiesel as an aircraft fuel for the same
     > reasons #2 diesel is not suitable: the tendency to gel and/or
    solidify
     > at the low temperatures commonly encountered at high altitudes. JetA
     > would probably be more suitable, particularly if it were heated. The
     > heat would have to be controlled somehow. Biodiesel, if made from the
     > right vegetable oil stock, might also be suitable if heated.
     >
     > The other problems I can see right off the top of my head are that of
     > low vapor pressure and higher viscosity. If the fuel was sprayed
     > directly on hot metal, the low vapor pressure might not be a factor,
     > particularly if special injectors were used. Maybe. The higher
     > viscosity would require a modified fuel system including injectors.
     > And probably the fuel map would have to be made temperature aware as
     > the viscosity of some of these fuels change dramatically with
    changing
     > temperature. On the plus side, a lower volume of fuel would have
    to be
     > dealt with per cycle for the same power/energy; and range would be
     > improved.
     >
     > Looks like a major development effort to me.
     >
     > Doc Custer
     > Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist
     > Building RV9-A. Fuselage
     >
     >

    I've been running waste vegetable oil in my '85 benz for 12 months now.
    The secret is in the filtering and preheating.
    Although I would not recommend waste veggie oil for aircraft
    applications,
    you could try new canola
    oil as long as it is preheated to @ 170 F through an electric inline
    heater,
    then through the coolant heat exchanger.
    The heat exchanger is @ 8 -10 pounds. The inline electric is 4
    ounces, but
    draws 20 - 30 amps.
    Mike  Arndt

I agree with Mike that heating vegetable oil for use as diesel fuel is
important, I made a simple heat exchanger out of 1/2" and 3/4' plumbing
fittings, running coolant through the 3/4" fittings.
Another worthwhile trick for our mild winters is to add about 5%
unleaded - the lower the octane the better. This raises the cetane
rating ( the opposite of octane rating ) so cold starts are easier. It
also lowers the viscosity at low temps so it will go through fuel filters

We have a lot of vehicles in Oz running on LPG, a variation of this is
to inject it into diesels to improve their economy and power. In this
case the amount of LPG injected would have to be kept down so the
mixture was too lean to detonate at diesel compression ratios.

I prefer to run on the waste vegetable oil rather than "biodiesel" - the
conversion using caustic soda and methanol is too expensive and messy.
Why throw away those 3 carbon atoms in the glycerine part anyway, I'd
rather burn them!

John Evans

Probably a good idea if you are willing to tinker with the beast, prep
the oil and risk trouble with the EPA and IRS if you live in the US. I
mean this sincerely. Some folks do.

I made some biodiesel. Dangerous chemicals, a mess, and disposal
problems, even if you use KOH instead of NaOH as a "catalyst." With
KOH you get potassium phosphate, a useable fertilizer as a by-product.
(Phosphoric acid is used to neutralize the KOH.) There are other
advantages to KOH. Good practice requires washing the biodiesel. The
wash water poses a disposal problem. The EPA license to make biodiesel
is $5,000 per year. I decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

We have at least one automobile (an old Benz) running on Straight
Vegetable Oil (used) here in the mountains of Colorado. Filter (a
problem) and heat are required. Starts on #2 diesel, runs on SVO.
Useless for short trips <20 miles and then only if housed in a garage,
preferably heated, in the winter 6 months. The owner uses it to
commute back and forth to the Denver area, about 180 miles, on an
irregular basis.

I think you have to have an indirect injection engine to use SVO, but
I am not sure. I have been told direct injection cokes the injectors.
That is why most vehicles running SVO are old Benzes and Volkswagens,
usually busses. There is lots of over-optimistic folk lore of
questionable veracity.

We had one company come and tell us that running SVO was feasible but
not optimal unless you use large quantities. The company
representative (President) said that most of his customers were
businesses that used over 1,000 gallons per WEEK! He only converts the
trucks. Selling and using SVO for use as a fuel is ILLEGAL - just ask
the EPA and IRS. He said that as long as you weren't selling it you
probably wouldn't be bothered. The IRS is involved because there is no
way to pay the federal highway tax. The EPA is involved because all
ICE fuels are hazardous. If SVO is used as an ICE fuel, it is
obviously a hazardous material. Some famous person once said "The law
is an ass." I agree. I wish I knew who said it. I think it is a well
known truism in the legal profession.

Proponents of using SVO seldom tell you that its use in the US is
illegal. There is lots of information on these fuels on the web. Not
all of it is correct. Caveat emptor!

Doc Custer
Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist
Building RV9-A. Fuselage

Doc,
Some chaps here locally are making their own. The only problem with the
filter is that it cleans the gunk out from using the diesel and clogs the
filter, the first time of use.
Their not washing the final product but using as is. The water molecules
merely attach to excess alcohol molecules for disposal.

I don't know what the extra alcohol molecules do in a high compression
motor, but no one is experiencing problem in their cars. It may be a
different problem at higher rpm/ load.
George ( down under)



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