Subject: Turbo
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 11/14/2006, 5:18 PM
To: AA-me


    >      >>> You will not necessarily get more boost with a larger
   compressor.
    >      >>> What it does is load the turbine down so it does not spin
    >      >>> as fast. The high speed spin is the main reason they fail.
    >      >>> Temperature has a lot to do with it as well but in our
    >      >>> case it is mostly spin IMHO.
    >      >>>
    >      >>> By all means cutting the turbine blades
    >      >>> sounds like a workable plan. Let us know how it goes.
    >      >>> Would be nice if you added a turbine tachometer
    >      >>> so we could get a better handle on the problem.
    >      >>>
    >      >>> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
    >      >>
    >      >>
    >      >> Paul,
    >      >>
    >      >> I have a fuel injected, single turbo 13b sitting in my
   hanger
    >     (`86-`89
    >      >> model with intercooler). I have heard from several
   sources that
    >     the stock
    >      >> turbo is not the best to use in aircraft application
   because of
    >     blade
    >      >> disintegration, over speeding, etc.
    >      >>
    >      >> What turbo should I use? Exact name and part number,
   please, so
    >     I can go
    >      >> to the turbo shop and ask for it by name. I do not know
   yet into
    >     what
    >      >> plane the motor will go into, but a 2.17:1 reduction will
   be used.
    >      >> Probably Tracy`s with his ignition and engine controller.
    >      >>
    >      >> Thank you and regards,
    >      >>
    >      >> Erik Snyman
    >      >> Messina
    >      >> South Africa.
    >      >>
    >      >> I don't know. We have not had enough guys run other than
   stock
    >      >> turbo's to really know what lives. We do know the stock turbo
    >      >> will live if a larger compressor is fitted. Tom Parkes
   has run
    >      >> an old aircraft turbo on a 3 rotor for awhile and that
   seems to
    >      >> work. Unfortunately it is out of production as I recall.
    >      >>
    >      >> Tracy's EFI will still have to be individually tuned for your
    >      >> specific airplane and engine. Also I would suggest an intake
    >      >> manifold air temperature alarm or sensor that detected intake
    >      >> manifold temperatures  over 140 F. It would be ideal if
    >      >> it richened the mixture or retarded the ignition slightly
    >      >> in that case to avoid detonation.
    >      >>
    >      >> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
    >      >
    >      > Paul,
    >      > I still feel (especially in stock turbo use), the bypass
   idea is
    >     the best
    >      > way to reduce heat and overspinning of the turbo. My new
   Suzuki
    >     motorcycle
    >      > has a butterfly valve to vary back pressure ( at different
   RPM's)
    > for
    >      > exhaust tuning - the same principle can be used for the
   bypass to
    > the
    >      > turbo.
    >      > Claiming original idea and patent rights.
    >      > George (down under)
    >      >
    >      > The stock 2nd gen  turbo already has a waste gate bypass
   valve.
    >      > Nobody (other than a car racer wall grind jpgs), to my
    >      > knowledge, has effectively ported it to increase
    >      > its effectiveness so far. In theory it should work.
    >      > As I recall Dave Leonard removed the flapper entirely
    >      > but that did not seem to work well enough. Apparently the
    >      > hole must be greatly enlarged. The flapper is also
    >      > restricted from opening 90 degrees by the back cover without
    >      > modification. Some of those mods are shown here
    >      >
    >      > Are you advocating adding a restrictor after the turbine?
    >      > If so that in effect is what happens with the stock exhaust
    >      > system in the 2nd gen RX7s. As soon as you remove the stock
    >      > exhaust system the boost jumps up several psi.
    >      >
    >      > Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
    >
    >     Paul,
    >     I'm suggesting a restrictor before the turbo and having the
   turbo in
    >     the
    >     bypass. In actual fact the turbo will not see any exhaust
   until it's
    >     wanted/
    >     needed and even then it is restricted.
    >     In a car turbo the turbo see all of the heat and power of the
    >     exhaust and
    >     the wategate allows some to bypass - as you suggest not
   sufficient.
    >
    >     The idea is to isolate the turbo from heat and power
   (overspinning)
    >     and only
    >     allow the minimum requirement for the job at hand. OF course
    >     overspinning
    >     still might be a problem if a lot of turbo is required at
   very high
    >     altitudes, but my feelings are that this is not the
   requirement of
    > most
    >     turbo applications i.e. turbo normalizing!
    >     George (down under)
    >
    >
    >
    > This is probably an issue of semantics, but restrictions should
    > generally be avoided.  They waste energy.  Airplanes don't have
   energy
    > to waste.
    >
    > Size the path around the turbo to provide enough bypass to keep
   the flow
    > through the turbine below a limit value.  Said differently, the only
    > restriction in the side with the turbo should be the turbo.
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Matt-

   Matt,
   The restriction ( Butterfly) is to the Turbo - it doesn't consume
   any energy
   rather redirects to exhaust or Turbo to the percent required!
   George ( down under)

   You will just have to learn 3D George :)

   --
   Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.


I think I understood you perfectly..  My point is that if opening a
valve to the turbo allows significant gas to flow through the turbo,
then there is excess restriction through the non-turbo leg of the
system.  It would seem that if the non-turbo leg was very free flowing,
only a few psi would exist in the system.  Opening a tap to the turbo
would only make a few psi available to drive the turbine for power recovery.


Matt-



The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site. http://www.rotaryeng.net
Copyright 1998-2006 All world wide rights reserved.