Subject: The turbo prop verses the turbo compound rotary.
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 11/28/2006, 6:57 PM
To: AA-me



            Paul,

            I wonder if you are focusing on the bearings in the planetary
            shafts? Then
            you would have a point. They would be doing elliptical
       loops around a
            circle.

            I'll go down to the office tomorrow and paint some white
       marks on the
            different gears and take four or five pictures of what happens
            during one
            revolution of the sun gear. Like the rotary it was hard to
       get my head
            around. This question is going to come up again and again
       so with Rolf's
            explanations and picture proof it would make a good
       addition to your
            website.

            Meanwhile have a look at this NASA report on unducted fans.
       The last
            part is
            especially revealing about the issues that keep a 'good
       technology' from
            coming to market. The author speaks about 'reverse salient
       issues'
            Poignant info concerning the rotary and even the rotary
       turbo compound.

            http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4219/Chapter14.html

            DougFir

            They underestimated the noise problem. Barely mentioned in this
            paper. It was so bad that it affected the structure of the
            airplane. GE felt they would have to add weight and cost to
       the
            AC structure to counter the noise problem which off set the
            20% fuel savings. BTW the fact that GE actually built
            and flew the unducted fan full scale yet again proves private
            innovation beats big gov bureaucracy every time.

            Not really a good analogy with the turbo compound rotary.
            There are no downsides to the turbo compound rotary compared
            the smaller turbo prop engines. It has everything going for
       it with
            the SAME noise. Less acquisition cost being a major advantage.
            50% fuel savings being another. Only the weight issue is still
            in question and the other shoe, namely the weight of an all
            aluminum or some other alloy large rotary, has not dropped yet.

            The real price of fuel over the years on average taking
            into consideration inflation has remained pretty much the same.
            What happened in 1973 as the price of fuel oil went up so did
            everything else including wages. When I was a kid the cost
       of a loaf
            of bread was about 20 cents, about the same as a gallon of
       fuel.
            Now the cost of a loaf of bread is still about the same as
            a gallon of fuel. If anything bread is now probably more
            costly. Hybrid car sales are down if not dying.

            I see no end to this cycle in our life time. Since Iraq is
       sitting
            on the worlds second largest known reserves of crude oil
            when they finally get finished killing each other off and this
            huge source of crude is fully developed the real price will
            drop yet again. IMHO a major factor, frequently not mentioned
            in the sectarian war, is who gets to control the Iraq oil.

            Waiting in the wings when crude oil pumped from the ground
       actually
            (if ever) becomes a reduced source (hasn't happened yet) is the
            Alberta, Utah, Wyoming tar sands.

            Paul Lamar

            The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
            ACRE NL web site. http://www.rotaryeng.net
            Copyright 1998-2006 All world wide rights reserved.

            Oops, forgot to attach the pic of the NASA and GE propfans.

            Regards,

            Gordon.

       The two on the right are actually the GE concept
       and not the NASA concept despite the NASA logo on the
       cowl. I saw the test airliner with the unducted fan on it
       out at Mojave where GE has a full scale test facility.
       Unfortunately I did not hear it run.

       Paul Lamar



   I think I heard/saw it run (in flight).  I was a kid, so I didn't
   have much to compare it to, but I recall that it made a strange
   warbling, screeching, groaning sound.  Maybe like having your ear
   right next to a skill saw going through MDF.  And was VERY loud.
   Soon after, I saw a harrier fly at Oshkosh, and it seemed comparably
   loud even though I was significantly closer to the harrier.
   Obviously a very different sound - qualitatively.


   Matt-


Oh yeah..  It was attached to an MD-80 if I recall correctly.

Matt-



The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site. http://www.rotaryeng.net
Copyright 1998-2006 All world wide rights reserved.