>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been looking through the Kinsler catalog and they have
>> everything
>>> you need to put together a dead simple, reliable mechanical fuel
>>> injection system for not much money -- maybe less than an Ellison
>> carb.
>>>
>>> Constant flow fuel injection is used on aircraft piston engines and
>>> works just like it sounds -- there is a constant spray of fuel
coming
>>> out of the injector nozzles, unlike the timed EFI and some
mechanical
>>> systems for cars.
>>>
>>> Constant flow is not great for cars, but perfect for airplanes,
>> because
>>> you are running at steady-state rpm and power most of the time.
>>>
>>> Have a look at the attached Kinsler Fuel Flow Diagram. The system
>> works
>>> like this: a mechanical fuel pump driven off the engine
supplies more
>>> fuel as rpm increases. It sends the fuel to a barrel valve that
>>> distributes the fuel to the individual nozzles at the intake ports.
>>>
>>> The barrel valve is kind of like a spider in aircraft FI systems,
>> but it
>>> is directly linked to the throttle, so as the throttle is
opened, the
>>> barrel valve is opened as well, allowing more fuel to flow to the
>> ports.
>>>
>>> Fuel metering is accomplished upstream of the barrel valve by
>> putting a
>>> restrictor jet in a return line that goes back to the tank. So
>> the fuel
>>> coming from the pump has two places to go, the barrel valve that
>> leads
>>> to the engine nozzles -- and the restrictor jet. The more fuel that
>>> flows through the restrictor jet, the less fuel goes to the engine.
>>> Leaning is accomplished by varying the size of the restrictor
jet. A
>>> bigger jet means a leaner mixture because it allows more fuel to
>> circle
>>> back to the fuel tank and less to the nozzles.
>>>
>>> Kinsler has a cockpit adjustable mixture control that lets you dial
>>> different jet sizes, as shown in the attached pictures.
However, the
>>> same thing could be accomplished with a simple ball valve, like
>> the Home
>>> Depot valve that Paul is implementing. It would be controlled by a
>>> Vernier control cable. This way no fuel has to go through the
>> cockpit.
>>>
>>> The barrel valve is available with a minimum of four ports, so
>> you can
>>> either put two nozzles on each P-port runner, one on each
four-runner
>>> manifold, or block off two of the ports and use one nozzle on each
>>> P-port runner. I would use two nozzles per runner to get better
>>> atomization. Also the fuel flow from two nozzles should be about
>> right
>>> for a single rotor. Same thing with the fuel flow of the 4-port
>> barrel
>>> valve.
>>>
>>> You could use Paul's slide throttle with this system or you
could use
>>> Kinsler throttle bodies which already have the bosses for
>> attaching the
>>> nozzles. If you roll your own you have to weld up some nozzle
bosses
>>> onto the runners. Btw, the Kinsler bosses can accept both the
>>> constant-flow and EFI injectors.
>>>
>>> This system can be used with a turbocharger or supercharger
>> because you
>>> can run it with high pressure. You could get significant
evaporative
>>> cooling effect by placing the nozzles close to the engine and
>> spraying
>>> the fuel right at the rotor. I would guess that you could
>> probably run
>>> 10 psi of boost without having to go to an intercooler.
>>>
>>> In a normally aspirated engine you can run it at lower pressure.
>> It also
>>> doesn't need heat, since icing is not possible. It provides all the
>>> advantages of fuel injection in terms of precise metering and
mixture
>>> distribution.
>>>
>>> This should make for a very dependable, completely mechanical
system
>>> that is not dependent on electrical, control boxes or computers.
>> If you
>>> implement the flywheel magneto as well, you will have a real
aircraft
>>> engine.
>>>
>>> You can download the Kinsler tech catalog here:
>>>
>>>
http://www.kinsler.com/catalog.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gordon.
>>>
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>> Very interesting. Good going.
>>
>> One minor point though.
>> Please be advised that a ball valve is good as a shut off valve but
>> makes a
>> terrible leaning valve. For example the flow curve is like a J
>> curve. It's
>> design merit is in the low flow resistance when all the way open
and the
>> ability to shut the flow off quickly. A good use would be the
>> emergency shut
>> off valve. For metering you need a metering valve or commonly
called a
>> needle valve. The needle come down perpendicular to the flow and
into a
>> tapered valve seat. Excellent fine adjustment for gas or liquid
flows.
>>
>> I have lots of experience using both of these valves with corrosive
>> gas and
>> liquid flows.
>>
>> Doug Fir
>>
>> Have you used them with a vernier leaning cable?
>>
>> No problem. Just get a control cable you can twist
>> to adjust the needle valve. Do you have any
>> brands you can recommend or do we have to make one?
>>
>> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>>
>> Doug,
>>
>> Thanks for the scoop on the ball valve. Right after I posted this I
>> started thinking about the ball valve and began to suspect that it
>> might not be very good for leaning. A great shut off valve though.
>>
>> A needle valve sounds like just the ticket -- hopefully there are
>> off-the-shelf items that will fit the bill. If not, you can always
>> use the Kinsler jet selector. Not as precise because it is stepped
>> rather than infitely variable, but still will work.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gordon.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the ball valve is not any more nonlinear than the round hole
>> in the slide throttle. One may get the impression it is hard
>> to adjust because the lever only moves 90 degree from full
>> on to full off while a threaded needle valve takes many turns
>> from full on to full off. The vernier push pull leaning cable to the
>> rescue. What the vernier does is allow super fine adjustments
>> by turning the knob. Much like a needle valve. I know some
>> of you have flown airplanes without vernier mixture knobs. Once
>> you have used one you will understand how well they work to
>> adjust the mixture to a fair the well.
>>
>> IMHO the answer is lengthen the lever arm on the ball valve
>> until it travels 3 inch's on the end for a 90 degree
>> angular change. A lever about 2 inches long should do the
>> job.
>>
>> However I am still open to using a needle valve if
>> somebody can come up with a practical design supplying a
>> 3D drawing of same. A 2D sketch will suffice. If it looks
>> good and looks like it will work I will do a 3D.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>> OK I had an idea. We can make this out of aluminum tubing.
>> Three inch long needle. The valve seat is pressed in from
>> one end and the intake and outlet fittings are welded
>> or bonded on with JB Weld. Make two. One for each rotor.
>> The only draw back is the leaning knob works backwards.
>> push for shut off. Pull to richen and push to lean.
>>
>> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>
>
> Paul,
>
> Sorry to be late in replying. The boss had me raking leaves all
day. Trust
> me on the ball valve. You will be surprised on how unstable it is
as a
> metering valve. The reason is the opening cross sectional area is
very non
> linear. In use it seems like the flow goes from 10% to 80% in a
few degrees
> of rotation. Needle valves should be available in any valve catalog.
>
>
> Yes vernier cable has the fine thread adjustment on the
instrument panel
> mount end I believe. C-152 had them but my C-150 has a Micky
Mouse spring
> clip. You pull and pull to overcome the resistance and suddenly
you have
> pulled too far. Makes for real attention getting when the engine
starts
> sputtering high over rugged northern Arizona terrain:)
>
>
> OK of course pull to lean. I have an idea on how to make it. Give
me about
> 6 hours and then I'll work on it tonight on Rhino. Lets see two
needles one
> inlet two outlets. The same principle will probably work for a bypass
> mechanism for the constant spray injector. Now its 15:30 and
still daylight
> so the boss has my next assignment waiting for me. Probably
splitting wood
> for the ofuro, deep bath.
>
>
> Doug
>
>
Paul,
Its now midnight in Japan and I got the dual needle valve and block
designed on Rhino. What format can I send it to you in. I did the
different parts in various colors to make it easier to understand.
When I render though all colors turn to gray. If I try to save a
perspective view I can't find a JPEG option.
Going to kitchen now for milk and cookies and awaiting your advise:)
Doug
Render it and save it as a jpg and send that.
Sleep during the day and work at night. That way the boss
won't bug you as much.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Method of changing direction of the throttle cable.
Use a beam or wheel with the input rod on the one end and the
output rod on the opposite end or side. the beam could rotate
about the center or could be displaced to gain a mechanical advantage.
With a wheel or a 90 degree turn of the beam at the rotation point
(L), you can also change direction.
Joel
I don't follow you on the wheel Joel. If you have MS Paint
do a sketch and saves as a jpg.
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul
Sorry for the delay. I can't figure out how to save paint in JPG.
Paint only wants to save in BMP.
I finally converted the drawing. Wheel 'A' shows a change of
direction with no change in the direction of force. Wheel 'B' shows
a change in direction and a change in direction of force (Push
becomes a pull). Wheel 'C' shows a change in direction, a change in
direction of force and a multiplication of force with a reduction in
movement.
The wheel is easy to visualize, however, arms could replace the
wheel (Trim off excess material on the wheel).
Joel
There is a geometry problem unless the wheel is huge.
You can use a connecting rod to solve it but that adds more
pivots for slop and back lash. A direct in line solid
push pull connection is the best.
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
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