Subject: Turbo tach
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 12/6/2006, 9:30 PM
To: AARotary Engine


       >  If you are having your turbo overhauled anyways,
       >  consider having flats milled on the shaft at it's
       >  mid-section.  Machine the center casting to accept an
       >  inductive prox sensor that senses the flats as the
       >  pass the shaft.  Now you've got a rugged, reliable
       >  method of measuring shaft speed.  This is the method
       >  Allied Signal used when we requested instrumented
       >  turbos for test purposes.
       >
       >  Roger Enns.

       There are many ways to skin the "turbo tach" cat.

       I've read about opposing black/white paint on the shaft end,
       painted nut
       faces, shaft magnets being picked up with inductors, etc.  They
       all have
       their drawbacks.

       OPTICAL
       -------
       Optical solutions usually have dirt/dust/grit problems, and
       involve an
       illuminator and detector (LED and photosensor) in the intake
       path.  This
       interrupts airflow, can be ingested, or can move in fast
       airflows.  The
       best solution I've seen used drilled holes in the turbocharger
       housing
       surface to mount the optics/components rigidly, to one side, out
       of the
       intake airflow.

       MAGNETIC
       --------
       Magnetic solutions usually involve magnetizing the shaft or
       embedding/attaching a magnet.  Any shaft modifications require
       precise
       balancing, since this thing will spin FAST.  Then we have to get a
       sensor in there to detect the magnet.  Close, but out of the
       airflow,
       otherwise we end up with movement and ingesting problems again.
       Somewhere between the compressor and turbine sections seems
       reasonable.

       Roger's idea of a flat on the shaft should work, but again, that
       shaft
       would have to be precisely balanced.

       *****

       I'm a fan of the optical method.

       1) Drill a hole in the shaft end, as if to put in safety
       wire.  The hole
       needs to be big enough to let light through easily.

       2) Drill opposing holes in the compressor intake housing, 180
       degrees
       apart, big enough to see through.  More importantly, big enough
       for a
       photosensor to see a LED/laser diode through.

       3) MAKE SURE the shaft hole lines up with the housing holes.

       As the shaft spins, you will get TWO pulses through for each
       rotation.
       > From there, it's a simple counting and timing game.  Simple
       circuits.

       I like it because there is nothing in the airflow, and the
       components
       are securely mounted on the exterior of the intake housing.

       Now, go ahead and shoot this one up guys.  :)
       1) Can an LED/photosensor work 3-5 inches apart?

       2) Are there any convenient housing hole locations that will line up
       with the end-of-the-shaft hole?

       3) Will dirt/dust/grit be a problem?

       I'll do the circuits if someone drills up turbo charger for
       testing.  :)

       Paul - If you would, please 3-D this for everyone.  Your
       pictures are
       worth a thousand words.

       --
       Vince Orton


       OK Thanks Vince :)

       --
       Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.


   We're talking about a device for R&D characterization, not so much
   one which would be required in a permanent sense, right?

   Here's a tach that goes to 100K RPM..

   http://www.valuetesters.com/Extech-461700-Mini-Photo-Tachometer-PocketTachT.php
   <http://www.valuetesters.com/Extech-461700-Mini-Photo-Tachometer-PocketTachT.php>

   I have seen similar devices with a fiberoptic extension on the nose
   to allow remote sensing of RPM.  Paint half  of the compressor
   blades black, and the other half white.  Put a bung on the
   compressor side, and mount the end of the extension in the bung and
   call it good.  You might have to develop a pressure capable
   "window."  I lense of tempered glass.  If the window gets dirty in
   20 or 30 hours of operation, pull it apart and clean it.

   If someone decides this is a useful instrument for a fully debugged
   turbo system (to warn of some impending failure), then design
   something special..  I suspect it won't be needed however, as once
   the system is characterized and optimized, turbo RPM deviations are
   probably a symptom of something else going wrong - something
   measurable through pressure ratios or similar.


   Matt-



With an 8 foot extension:

http://www.monarchinstrument.com/phasar.htm

Kind of spendy, but plugin.


Matt-


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