>>> Keith,
    >>>
    >>> Just playing devils advocate here....
    >>>
    >>> How is running a water cooled rotary without coolant until failure
    >>> going to show the masses that it is superior to an air cooled
    >>> reciprosaur?
    >>> The air cooled recprosaur does not have coolant to loose....
    >>>
    >>> One thing both engines have in common is a pressurized oil system,
    >>> however, if either engine looses oil pressure, they will both
   seize.
    >>>
    >>> I guess I am just not sure what the demo will accomplish.
    >>>
    >>> Heath Holbrook
    >> A lot of people are installing auto conversions. Except for the
    >> VW and
    >> Corvair, all of these are water-cooled, and loss of coolant has
    >> caused a
    >> number of downed planes.
    >> The main thing, though, is to grab attention. Nobody's ever heard
    >> of a
    >> water-cooled engine running without coolant -- "it can't be
    >> done!" They
    >> will come out of curiosity, even if it's morbid curiosity, and get
    >> close
    >> enough to see the pile of broken reciprosaur parts and other
    >> displays.
    >> We won't be just one more engine idea buried in the show somewhere.
    >> Keith
    >> I don't think this is going to work Keith. You will destroy
    >> an engine to impress two dozen people. There used to be a display
    >> in the flea market area of a piston engine running with out
    >> oil as I recall.
    >> Pilots are not all that concerned with the liquid
    >> cooling per se. They want a simple reliable engine. That means one
    >> cooling radiator and one oil cooler with simple, straight
    >> forward, short plumbing. A carb or simple mechanical fuel
    >> injection. Preferable a couple of mags. Something they understand
    >> and are familiar with. They are also impressed by HP and
    >> performance. Rate of climb and top speed. The ability to
    >> burn cheap auto gas is a big plus for the rotary.
    >> Lots of new aircraft piston engines if not most
    >> require expensive 100LL.
    > > Paul Lamar
    >
    > It will impress more than two dozen people. That no-oil engine was a
    > demo for a cylinder treatment. It ran a few minutes at a time. You
    > remember it now, even though you're not in the market for a piston
    > engine, because it's something that everyone "knows" an engine
    > can't do.
    >
    > Everyone "knows" that the Wankel was a technological dead end,
    > expensive, unreliable and fragile. So we show them a cheap engine
    > yanked out of a wrecking yard, with NO modifications, doing something
    > that everyone "knows" an engine can't do, and they'll remember
   it, and
    > TALK about it.
    >
    > What we're talking about is getting people to believe in a whole
    > different TECHNOLOGY. You should see some of the comments that I got
    > when I announced in a WAR Replicas forum that I plan to put a
    > rotary on
    > my 1/2 scale F4U.
    >
    > There is no market for the 12A engines. Heck, I have a whole RX-7
    > with
    > the 12A that I can't get $100 for, and that's what I paid for the
    > thing!
    > So that's the engine series to use, while pointing out that it's two
    > generations back (which is why we can afford to history the thing).
    >
    > One thing that I always tell skeptics when I do a presentation,
   speech
    > or demo is to prove me wrong! If they do their research, they will
    > find
    > out that I was right in the first place, and they will change sides.
    >
    > The whole thing with the engine is just to get their attention
   anyhow.
    > Can you name 10 of the things exhibitors showed you last Oshkosh?
    > Probably not. Show them something amazing and they'll remember it.
    > When they drive home, they'll be thinking about how the engine in
    > their
    > car won't run a minute after losing all of its water, but ". . .that
    > old, ratty Wankel they pulled out of a wrecking yard kept running!"
    >
    > They'll talk about it. The next time the subject comes up, they're
    > remember and maybe we'll have another rotary flyer.
    >
    > But once they're looking at the "impossible," they will be more
    > accepting when they see the other things we want to show them.
    >
    > Keith

   Keith, I think this is a bad idea period. I cannot support it. Our
   issue is to build an airworthy engine installation that is clearly
   superior to all others. Destroying a junk engine is meaningless.
Jerry


It?s a good idea Keith - don?t be discouraged by the skeptics. What you
propose is a simple "get their attention" demonstration. A dynamic,
dramatic, destructive test such as this would prove an important feature
of the rotary and it would, without question, promote discussion among
visitors who might not otherwise have given rotaries second thoughts. I
think the first, most feasible, demo should be planned for SNF. I can
arrange free space at the Engine Forum tent, signage and access to the
PA mike to spread the word. You might consider running the engine (with
coolant) every afternoon just to show a live rotary and make the
destructive demo on the weekend for maximum exposure. During the week
you, and we Rotarheads, could use the display space to preview the demo
and talk rotary to visitors. A rotary teardown and rebuild (without
fluids) is already a daily event at this forum and there is always
respectable attendance with a question and answer session. Use SNF to
gather supporters and develop displays and materials for the day when
Rotarheads can afford to take the production to OSH. Last year I formed
a nonprofit corporation in Florida called The Association of Rotary
Powered Aircraft (ARPA) for the sole purpose of slowly gathering
components that one day could be recommended to builders as a proven
package. A running demo of any rotary would be progress. Rotary needs
your energy and enthusiasm Keith; you can count me in as a volunteer (I
live an hour away from Lakeland). How can I help you? PM me if you wish
at _ehkerr@aol.com_. I just thought of a way to make the destructive
demo more acceptable - run until it stops on Saturday, rebuild it
overnight and then run it again Sunday. If it will not conveniently stop
by itself after an obscene run, you could stop it, be unable to restart
it and declare the engine unusable until overhauled. The rebuild time
and cost would be impressive - and newsworthy! We can do this.
Ernie Kerr



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