> Hi Paul,
>
> Maybe in a few words I can clarify the gear concept. You've
> said this
> in
> different words before so if I'm too far off base please edit.
>
> The gears inside the rotary are a means of "timing" the
> position of
> the rotor. Very much akin to the way "timing" gears ( or
> chains or
> cog belts ) "Time" the position of the CAMshaft in an auto
> engine. *** POWER is not transmitted in either case, only the
> exact
> POSITION is determined.*** This "timing" is necessary to
> put the
> piston engine valves in the proper place at the proper time,
> in the
> rotary this "timing" is necessary to put the rotor in the
> proper
> place
> at the proper time.
>
> Concept any clearer or did I muddy the waters even more.
> Dave
>
> Excellent. Much better than I could have put it. Very concise.
>
> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>
> Yes.. That is very good. Can I help with the language?
>
> The gears inside the rotary are a means of "timing" the position
> and
> orientation of the rotor. This is very much akin to the way
> "timing" gears ( or chains or cog belts ) "time" the position
> of the
> CAMshaft in a piston engine. *** POWER is not transmitted in either
> case, only the exact POSITION is determined.*** This "timing" is
> necessary to put the piston engine valves in the proper place at the
> proper time. In the rotary this "timing" is necessary to put the
> rotor
> in the proper place and orientation at the proper time.
>
>
> Matt-
>
>
> I'll still act dense here.
>
> It seems that "timing" (except ignition timing, which can be handled
> in many
> ways) is a function of the placement and shape of the ports. Since
> the ports
> are open and closed by the position of the rotor and the rotor will
> go as
> fast as its load, design, and inputs allow it, where is the "timing"
> issue?
>
> Ports will be open whenever the rotor isn't blocking them, unlike
> the valves
> in a piston engine, which will open when the camshaft says. If a cam
> belt or
> chain slips a tooth, valve timing will change; what can change in a
> rotary?
>
> Tim Kern
>
> Nothing. If it slips a tooth it will jam. Extremely rare occurrence.
> Far less of an occurrence than a cam changing timing due to worn
> teeth. Engine can be over hauled several times without replacing
> the static or rotor gear.
>
> BTW p-ports never close. As the chambers comes by the ports two
> chambers can be open at the same time. The rotary is closer to a
> continuous combustion engine (jet) than it is to a intermittent
> combustion (piston) engine.
>
> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>
>
> Maybe I can try again... Requoting:
>
> The gears inside the rotary are a means of "timing" the position and
> orientation of the rotor. This is very much akin to the way
> "timing" gears ( or chains or cog belts ) "time" the position of the
> CAMshaft in a piston engine. *** POWER is not transmitted in either
> case, only the exact POSITION is determined.*** This "timing" is
> necessary to put the piston engine valves in the proper place at the
> proper time. In the rotary this "timing" is necessary to put the rotor
> in the proper place and orientation at the proper time.
>
> >From dictionary.com <http://dictionary.com>: Timing: 1.the system of
> those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past,
> present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that
> in which events succeed one another.
>
> "Timing" in this context is not about seconds, minutes, or hours so much
> as it is about the precise order in which things happen. "Timing" an
> engine is about degrees of rotation of some shaft in the engine,
> regardless of RPM. This means that "timing" is not about "time," but
> about the order of operation.
>
> So, rewriting the above...
>
> The gears inside the rotary are a means of controlling the position and
> orientation of the rotor within the housing. This is very much akin to
> the way timing gears ( or chains or cog belts ) "time" the position of
> the CAMshaft in a piston engine. *** POWER is not transmitted in either
> case, only the exact POSITION and ORIENTATION of various pieces are
> determined.*** This "timing" is necessary to put the piston engine
> valves in the proper place at the proper time. In the rotary this
> "timing" is necessary to put the rotor in the proper place and
> orientation at the proper time. The gears force the rotor to be
> oriented correctly at any given position of the e-shaft in order for the
> combustion cycles to take place.
>
>
> Other things to consider:
>
> Without the correct gearing, the rotor would be free to rotate on the
> e-shaft. This would allow (among other things), depending on how the
> rotor was oriented, gases to travel from above one rotor face to an
> adjacent face by passing around the end of the apex of the rotor.
>
> Many piston engines will "jam" if the cam slips a tooth - a valve will
> contact a piston.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
If I may add a little comment as well:
The gearing provides proper "orientation" of the piston. Piston
"position" is provided by the Eccentric shaft.
The above text should read:
The gears inside the rotary are a means of controlling the [omitted:
'position and']
orientation of the rotor within the housing. Piston positioning is
provided by the eccentric. This is very much akin to ...
The last sentence spells it out correctly as only 'orientation ' is
addressed.
I also agree that this is a very good explanation.
The last paragraph
"Other things to consider"
is not really correct.
The piston will jam immediately if the orientation of the eccentric
shaft and the matching orientation of the piston is not exactly as
needed. The piston can not be turned on the eccentric shaft assuming no
gears are present.
That actually was a contributing factor for the chatter marks of the
early days when orientation was not as precise and the surface too weak
allowing apex seal indentations into the trochoide to happen.
Any deviation from the exactly needed position will force one apex seal
off the trochoide and another apex seal into the surface of the
trochoide depending on the present orientation of the piston. Since
entry into the surface is not possible, lifting off of another apex seal
is also not possible.
Rolf
Write it all out for me Rolf :)
--
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
When you write it out do I have permission to release it under the
GFDL on wikipedia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
-Jeff (Jeff Martin)
You got to get my permission Jeff. You have it if you say where
you got it from and who wrote it.
BTW Don't call it a piston Rolf. Call it a rotor.
Or call it a chamber face if that is what you mean by piston.
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site.
http://www.rotaryeng.net
Copyright 1998-2006 All world wide rights reserved.