Subject: Ethanol
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 4/6/2007, 2:06 PM
To: AARotary Engine


         > Paul,
         >
         > It is not correct that range has to suffer by burning
         ethanol. In
         > fact range can increase if you fly above 10,000 ft density
         altitude.
         >
         > The reason is that ethanol has an oxygen content of about 25
         > percent. The effect is like supercharging, or nitrous oxide, or
         > dragsters that use nitromethane which has huge amounts of
       oxygen.
         > Gordon

         Sorry, this is not correct -- the oxygen in ethanol is
         representative of
         the fact that is has been partially oxidized, in other words,
         partially
         burned. So some of the energy content has been expended over
       being a
         hydrocarbon. Nitromethane is a different story. The oxygen can
         come free
         of the nitro-groups and combine with any available hydrocarbons.

         You carry less energy per pound with ethanol, how you use it
         determines
         your specific fuel consumption, milage, etc.

         The evaporative cooling effects and octane effects are real,
       but the
         oxygen content has already been used up ( i.e. not available).

         Bill Schertz

         Bill,

         Thanks for that insight.

         What exactly do you mean by, "partially oxidized?" The way I
         understand it pure ethanol has an oxygen content of 35
       percent, so
         all of that oxygen should be available for oxidization, no?
       (AGE 85
         is only 85 percent ethanol -- the rest is pentane isomerate -- so
         its oxygen content is about 30 percent.)

         The oxygen is the reason the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of
         ethanol is lower than gosoline -- because when you add the same
         volume of air, there is more total oxygen due to the oxygen
       embedded
         in the fuel, so you need more fuel to completely oxidize the extra
         oxygen. See the attached table, "Ethanol Gasoline Properties."

         The heat energy of ethanol per pound or per gallon is lower than
         gasoline, as you pointed out. However, the oxygen in the ethanol
         results in better thermodynamic efficiency, so power actually goes
         up. You can see in the attached chart that an O-470 engine
       running
         on AGE85 has 15 percent more peak power.

         The graphic on flight test data shows that at 10,000 feet a Mooney
         with an IO-360 running AGE85 has a fuel burn at lean mixture
       that is
         less than the same plane on avgas at 8,000 feet. One of the
         advantages of ethanol is that very lean mixtures can be safely
       run.


         Regards,

         Gordon.


         Gordon,
         What adverse effects are there on housings when you use
       Ethanol ? I had
         developed and manfactred seals which resist methanol and
       future long
         life oil detergints. These could be used on a rotary engines too,
         however I had the impletion that Ethanol, Methanol etc corrod the
         housing.

         regards
         Roderick

         Roderick,

         As far as I can find from the literature, AGE 85 is compatible
       with
         existing fuel system materials.

         Here are some snippets from I think Baylor University which
       has lots
         of info on AGE 85.

         Regards,

         Gordon.

       Gordon,
       While I'm sure the info you provided about operation at 10K and
       above
       is true, I must interject that most of my local flights would be
       over
       before
       I even got to 10K feet! Lots of local fun flying never exceeds 4K.
       One other item that is rotary specific, does anybody know if
       there may be
       mixing trouble if you run fuel/oil mix? I'm NOT stating this, I
       don't know.
       I'm not a chemist and I don't even play one on TV.

       Bill Jepson


for FKM Polymer seals is definetly not true.. I full time job is as
   Operations Manager at Trelleborg... and Seals are designed for
   specific fuels, and chemicals, we have a large range of FKM seals
   designed form specific enviroments, being it temp, oils, fuels etc.
   Never assume that all FKM  compounds are the same.



Sorry for correcting your info source, but EP is usually used for water
and Braking seals which temp does not exceed 140C, NBR - for ligh oils
which temp does not exceed 125C, and FKM for Fuels. FVMQ - id good for
all but its cost is about 10 times more.

check out our web site at www.trelleborg.com <http://www.trelleborg.com>
Roderick Scotto

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