> > Paul,
> >
> > It is not correct that range has to suffer by burning
> ethanol. In
> > fact range can increase if you fly above 10,000 ft density
> altitude.
> >
> > The reason is that ethanol has an oxygen content of about 25
> > percent. The effect is like supercharging, or nitrous oxide, or
> > dragsters that use nitromethane which has huge amounts of oxygen.
> > Gordon
>
> Sorry, this is not correct -- the oxygen in ethanol is
> representative of
> the fact that is has been partially oxidized, in other words,
> partially
> burned. So some of the energy content has been expended over being a
> hydrocarbon. Nitromethane is a different story. The oxygen can
> come free
> of the nitro-groups and combine with any available hydrocarbons.
>
> You carry less energy per pound with ethanol, how you use it
> determines
> your specific fuel consumption, milage, etc.
>
> The evaporative cooling effects and octane effects are real, but
> the
> oxygen content has already been used up ( i.e. not available).
>
> Bill Schertz
>
> Bill,
>
> Thanks for that insight.
>
> What exactly do you mean by, "partially oxidized?" The way I
> understand it pure ethanol has an oxygen content of 35 percent, so
> all of that oxygen should be available for oxidization, no? (AGE 85
> is only 85 percent ethanol -- the rest is pentane isomerate -- so
> its oxygen content is about 30 percent.)
>
> The oxygen is the reason the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of
> ethanol is lower than gosoline -- because when you add the same
> volume of air, there is more total oxygen due to the oxygen
> embedded
> in the fuel, so you need more fuel to completely oxidize the extra
> oxygen. See the attached table, "Ethanol Gasoline Properties."
>
> The heat energy of ethanol per pound or per gallon is lower than
> gasoline, as you pointed out. However, the oxygen in the ethanol
> results in better thermodynamic efficiency, so power actually goes
> up. You can see in the attached chart that an O-470 engine running
> on AGE85 has 15 percent more peak power.
>
> The graphic on flight test data shows that at 10,000 feet a Mooney
> with an IO-360 running AGE85 has a fuel burn at lean mixture that is
> less than the same plane on avgas at 8,000 feet. One of the
> advantages of ethanol is that very lean mixtures can be safely run.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Gordon.
>
>
> Gordon,
> What adverse effects are there on housings when you use Ethanol
> ? I had
> developed and manfactred seals which resist methanol and future long
> life oil detergints. These could be used on a rotary engines too,
> however I had the impletion that Ethanol, Methanol etc corrod the
> housing.
>
> regards
> Roderick
>
> Roderick,
>
> As far as I can find from the literature, AGE 85 is compatible with
> existing fuel system materials.
>
> Here are some snippets from I think Baylor University which has
> lots
> of info on AGE 85.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gordon.
>
> Gordon,
> While I'm sure the info you provided about operation at 10K and
> above
> is true, I must interject that most of my local flights would be
> over
> before
> I even got to 10K feet! Lots of local fun flying never exceeds 4K.
> One other item that is rotary specific, does anybody know if there
> may be
> mixing trouble if you run fuel/oil mix? I'm NOT stating this, I
> don't know.
> I'm not a chemist and I don't even play one on TV.
>
> Bill Jepson
>
> Bill,
>
> That's a good point about the oil mixing, and that has crossed my
> mind too. I don't have an answer for that, but the literature says
> that AGE 85 mixes seamlessly with 100 LL, in whatever ratio you
> like. Based on that I would guess that oil should not be a problem.
>
> Another hint is that AGE 85 actually contains about 1 percent
> biodiesel, so oil mixing should not be a problem. But that is far
> from a fact at this point.
>
> I'm going to attach a power point presentation that gives a very
> good intro to AGE 85. I think it's available from the Baylor
> website.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gordon.
>
>
> What is the cost per gallon ?
>
> Roderick Scotto


-- Hi Paul

It is available in in Brazilian market additives to be mixed with ethanol.
Bardhal, produces the "Proal" for mixing in ethanol making is less
corrosive also adding some lubrication effect.
There is also the "Flex Proal" available for Flex fuel autos.
Regular oil does not mix easily with ethanol.

Castro

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