Subject: mikuni carbs
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 5/29/2007, 4:35 PM
To: AARotary Engine


    Guys,

    I'm with Dave on the smaller runners -- 1.75" ID, 44 mm.

    I'll take the better torque below 6000 rpm with the smaller runners.
    Think about how you fly your plane. You want your torque peak to be
    below your cruise rpm, so that when you push in the throttle, your
    power comes up quickly.

    If your torque peak is above your cruise rpm, pushing in that
    throttle is going to feel pretty lame. You might as well forget
    about controlling pitch attitude with power -- like in a power-on
    approach for example.

    Anyway, the Lemans engine was tuned for peak power at 8500 rpm. With
    2.85 reduction gearing your limit is going to be about 7500, which
    gives just over 2600 prop rpm.

    If you compare volumetric flow between 8500 rpm and 7500 rpm, you
    see that it is 88 percent of the higher rpm. So since the 1.75" ID
    has 87 percent of the area of the larger tube, it should be just right.

    This will give plenty of power. My turbo chart spreadsheet shows 253
    hp at 7500 rpm, assuming a VE of just 1.1.

    Pick up a couple of those 44 Mikunis for a couple of hundred bucks,
    a needle valve for maybe $50 and you're in business.

    Regards,

    Gordon.


    Not true Gordon. HP is what airplanes fly on. It is not like a car.
    Forget all you know about car engines. Your computer model is flawed.

    HP is torque TIMES RPM.

    You want max torque at cruise RPM because that is where the best
    BSFC is.

    Your making a big mistake as your BSFC will also be worse.
    The Lemans engines was designed for minimum fuel burn
    because the rules stated one had only so much fuel to run
    the race on.

    As I said before an intake manifold is an aerodynamic device with
    aerodynamic drag. Power is consumed by the engine to pump the air
    in. It is a trade off with organ pipe effects. If you want the best
    BSFC you want to minimize the aerodynamic drag in your intake manifold
    and you therefore you want to minimize the air velocity in the intake
    manifold and maximize the cross sectional area to skin area ratio.

    Smaller pipes work in cars at low RPM because the intake air velocity
    is much lower and the organ pipe effects dominate. Mazda spent big
    bucks tuning the Lemans engine and nobody has got more power or less
    fuel burn.

    The velocity in an intake manifold can be as high as Mach .4 or higher.

    Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.

    Actually Paul, planes fly on thrust -- but in the case of propeller
    engines (both piston and turboprop), the thrust is produced by
    horsepower not torque, which is what you were probably trying to say.

    What I'm talking about is the torque characteristics of the engine.
    An engine with a sharp, steep torque curve would be a disaster for
    an aircraft engine. What you need is a very flat, wide torque band
    in the heart of your cruise rpm range (2000 to 2500 prop rpm).

    Yes, BSFC is lowest at torque peak. But if you have a peaky engine,
    you will only see that good mileage in a very narrow rpm band. Large
    intake runners make for a peaky power curve. Smaller runners will
    produce a wider torque band that will give good fuel specifics in a
    wide rpm band.

    Anyway the difference we are talking about is relatively minor. The
    smaller runner is almost 90 percent of the area of the large
    runner. I'm afraid that big runner will only shift the torque peak
    to a higher rpm and will result in less power in the middle rpm
    range where you need good power in an aircraft engine.

    I love the idea of the 1.75 ID tubing. I think it will actually be a
    better aircraft engine with more power in the midrange because the
    velocity will be higher in the runners and therefore more momentum
    in the air charge for more complete cylinder filling. Those big
    pipes are great for top end on a race track, but when you are
    cruising along in your plane and then have to initiate a cruise
    climb you will be tapping your VSI with your index finger wondering
    why your plane isn't climbing.

    And what's wrong with my spreadsheet? I recall you giving it your
    blessing a couple of weeks ago when I was tweaking it with data from
    that Le Mans engine which you supplied. As I recall my spreadsheet
    ended up showing less hp than your graph (615 hp versus 650).


    Regards,

    Gordon.

Prop thrust is produced by HP and not torque.

If you are cruising along at less than max HP with a fixed pitch
prop the engine is not fully loaded. Unlike a car there is no
fixed mechanical connection between aircraft speed and engine RPM.
If you open the throttle to climb in an aircraft the engine RPM will instantly
accelerate to max RPM and HP consistent with the prop load. Response has nothing
to do with it.

Climb has nothing to do with torque. Climb only has to do
with the ratio between max HP out of the prop  and the drag and gross weight.
There will be no climb without excess HP.

Your program cannot calculate BSFC because it has nothing in it
about intake manifolds, engine friction and a myriad of other things
that determine BSFC. One of those is pumping losses.

If you want to use 1.75 inch tubing be my guest. I don't recommend it.

BTW every pilot that is checked out in a variable pitch prop equipped
airplane is taught to reduce the pitch first and then apply the throttle.
Why?

Paul Lamar

The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
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Vance W Jaqua wrote:


Paul - Since I was changing down to text and seperating
out the pix - I put it on my web page www.geocities.com/vjaqua
I will send it to you direct in pieces a bit later Vance


No need.  I can capture it off your web site. Here it is. Nice job Vance. 
Cute
illustrations. Instead of being a rocket scientist did you ever consider
a cartoonist career?  Thanks Vance. PL


TORQUE "LET'S TORQUE ABOUT HORSEPOWER"

It seems that wherever you go, people seem overly obsessed by torque. "Yeah
that engine may have a lot of horsepower, but it really takes torque to turn
that prop", just as if we were talking about two unrelated characteristics
of the engine. Yes! It does take torque to turn that prop, but torque alone
is almost meaningless in describing power. Torque is only a measure of
force, specifically operating on a lever arm. The most common English unit
of measure being foot-pounds. This perhaps best represented by the Torque
wrench in your toolbox for tightening critical threaded joints. When the
book says tighten to 40 foot-pounds, you could do this by applying 40 pounds
force at the end of a one-foot long wrench, or 20 pounds on a two-foot
wrench. The torque is the product, force times lever length. Just to make
things more complicated, the English unit for "work" is also the product of
pounds force times feet (distance rather than arm). Many references try to
sort this out by using pounds-feet for one and foot-pounds for the other,
but if you are easily confused like me, just make sure you identify the
units you are using as either torque or work.

A simple-minded cartoon might help - we have two employees at Acme Machine
Company. Our first employee is resting (possibly sleeping) on the machine
handle. He is providing torque - if it is a two foot handle, and he is
resting 100 pounds of his weight on this handle, the torque is 200 foot
pounds. Even though he is being paid by the hour, he is not doing "work", a
totally inert 100-pound weight would accomplish just as much.

See jpg #1

However, our foreman's "pet" George is busily cranking away on his machine,
applying a force and rotating the handle at a useful rate. He is doing work,
and not just because he is getting tired and sweating. Rotary work is torque
times the distance around for each turn completed. Power is the rate of
doing work, or in this case torque, times 2PI (6.28) times the number of
turns per time unit, a typical answer being in foot-pounds per minute, or
per second.

See jpg #2

HORSEPOWER - THE PONY TO PUT YOUR MONEY ON 

As we stated above, power is the rate of doing work. Early in the days of
steam engine development, one of the first uses was for pumping water out of
mines. Horses were used for this job, rotating mindlessly around a turnstile
to drive the pumps. In order to sell a steam system to a mine owner, you
would need to tell him how powerful it was. An enterprising young man named
James Watt observed and measured work being done by horses, and decided that
it was about 550 foot-pounds per second (either he was watching union
horses, or was foretelling current advertising techniques of the auto
industry, for any self respecting horse can easily exceed that work rate).
Thus, a one horsepower work rate is equivalent to lifting 550 pounds one
foot per second, or any other equivalent product such as 100 pounds 5.5 feet
per second. For rotary work using torque, the distance is around the circle;
horsepower is torque times 2Pi times turns per second, divided by our 550
number (for rpm the divisor is 33,000). If you have some horsepower, in a
manner of speaking you might say, "Torque is cheap" (groan), just gear her
down". That is the secret of bulldozers and tractors, which usually have
surprisingly modest horsepower. As we see from the computations, rpm alone
is also not an automatic indication of power.

SOME TORQUE MYTHS

"Long stroke makes more torque". This one probably came from the old method
of sizing engines for tax purposes. This barbaric custom was common in
England and Europe, the British RAC and French CV being good examples. Total
piston area was the criteria, using old state of the art values for piston
speed and BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) (1000 ft/min and 67.2 psi,
specifically). The figure below is a good indication of the state of the art
when these rules were laid down.


See jpg #3


>From a first edition Mark's Handbook of 1916, this was a six cylinder Alco
engine with 4.75 bore, and a 5.2 in, stroke for 553 cubic inches. The famous
old Austin Seven was named for the seven RAC horsepower under those rules.
The Citroen 2CV and the Renault 4CV are other examples. It did not take car
builders very long to realize that they could offer more performance (for
their tax dollar) at the same RAC tax horsepower, by lengthening the stroke.
More torque?, of course - well DAH!, it is a bigger motor. Obviously you
could also increase torque an equivalent amount by increasing the bore, but
the tax man was at the door waiting. This is the reason that all those early
postwar engines had ridiculously long stroke.

"Them Diesels make more torque than gas engines". This is a true mistake of
perception, brought on by comparing big truck Diesels with car engines. This
myth has been at least Partially discredited by General Motors unfortunate
350 inch "Olds" Diesel. The truth is, that for the same displacement and
manifold pressure, the Diesel will provide significantly less torque (and
horsepower) than the equivalent gasoline engine. The reason for this is the
fact that direct injection has problems providing a uniform mixture ratio
distribution, such that at full throttle you run into the "smoke limit".
This is typically at a much leaner mixture than the near stochiometric
operation at full throttle in a gasoline engine. If you can't usefully burn
the fuel, you cannot make the power.

PERCIEVED TORQUE

"I know torque when I see it, and them rotaries don't have it". Most people
do not have a real feel for what torque is and what it does. What they have
experienced is typically with a manual transmission, a lack of acceleration
from a cruise to a passing situation. This is best described as a "peaky"
engine with a reduced area under the power curve. In today's overdrive
world, we are cruising 5000rpm engines at about 2000rpm at highway speeds.
If we do not have a "fat" power curve, there is not much extra power
available in going to full throttle. Modern automatic transmissions have
made those "torque holes" almost invisible, and an aggressive driver has
already downshifted.

SOME TRICKS WITH TORQUE

It is often desired to have a power curve for an engine, and the data is
difficult to obtain. Most specifications do list peak power at the given
rpm, and peak torque at that given rpm. Of course it is good to remember
that for advertised data, that the sales department gets two votes, while
the engineering department gets only one vote. By using the simple equations
you can convert that data to two torque points and/or two horsepower points.
Now, you high school teacher wisely told you that you should not try to draw
a curve with only two point. However, we also know that these points are
tangents on the curve, falling of on the low end from valve overlap, and the
other end from breathing limits. It probably works best to first draw the
torque curve, and recomputed, using these points to make the horsepower
curve. Some engines put lumps in the torque curve from intake tuning, and
other tricks. But the approximation works pretty well most of the time (This
will not work for classic airplane engines, because they do not give you
peak power, but power curves are generally available for them)

TORQUE AND POWER RELATIONSHIP IN ENGINE MODIFICATIONS 

In modifying an engine, the various "tools" work on different parts of the
power picture. Increasing compression ratio can increase the torque (as long
as you can get away with it). But usually has little impact on rpm
characteristics. "Porting" will usually have little impact on torque in the
lower speed range, but will move, and possibly increase the "peak" point Cam
modifications generally increase lift, for more area, and overlap and
duration, with the usual loss in lower speed torque, but moving the torque
peak, and possibly increasing it. Manifold resonance ("Ram charging")
primarily increases the cylinder filling over a fairly narrow rpm range for
increased torque in that range, but generally decreasing power in the off
resonance rpm ranges. Super charging, and high energy fuel and oxidizer
additions increase power all over the range, with real potential for total
"meltdown".

CONCLUSION

It pretty much boils down to the fact that that it is not enough to "torque
the torque" you have to work the work!

Vance Jaqua 

 
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