> There has been a discussion on the nopistons forum about TES o-rings. The installation
>
> method that some of the guys used may questionable, but I thought it may be good to discuss here.
>
> http://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67208
>
> Post 35 on the second page has some pictures of the o-rings after a tear down.
>
> What are your thoughts Paul?
>
> Heath
>
> I am not allowed to access that forum :) Obviously they don't want the truth :)
> If you want to cut and paste the message to an email and send it to me I will comment.
>
> If they are too big they WILL cause BIG problems. People have to
> buy the exact right size directly from Creavey. What they sell elsewhere
> may not be the right size. For an example a 3/32" dia. O ring will not cut it and
> will cause problems as it is not .096" in diameter as one would think.
> It is .108" inches in diameter. TOO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Here is a pdf file on the subject.
>
> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
You have to register and sign in to view the post. I PDF'd the post in case you
don't want to register. The post is concerning TES o-rings Tracy sells, and I
assume he followed your guidelines when putting the package together. This may
very well be a case of operator error as far as proper installation as some people
that responded to the post had good luck and others did not. One person did reference
your website and write up on TES o-ring selection.
Heath Holbrook
I don't register and I don't require people to register here. I ask people here
to sign their name. Sometimes they don't but I know who they are.
I don't know what register is about but I think they are just gathering information
for marketing purposes.
No comment on the pdf as I don't know who "B" is :) He could be working for
Mazda Parts Department :) The thing about the Internet is there are shills lurking
about. A shill is a person that is paid to discredit certain products and services
and sell other products or services instead. I have certain ways of detecting shills
with about 12 years experience on BBS's and the Internet. If I told you about the
ways I would have to kill you :)
I will say "B" is not providing the required details on diagnostics of his alleged overheating.
For example; Does the water jacket hold pressure? Is there a coolant loss?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I take it back about "B" and I apologize to him. I checked back on the old messages
and he was on the list for awhile. His name (I think) is Brian D. Cain. He seems reasonable.
What he apparently refuses to do is store the TES O-rings on a board for a few days
to flatten them before using. This is IMHO absolutely essential. Also people complaining
about over heating with these TES O-rings are not pressurizing the cooling system to check
for internal leaks. All real mechanics know how to do that. Over heating can be caused by a
myriad of factors of course.
The TES O-ring splitting is unheard of using Creavey O-rings. Somebody somewhere
has a quality control problem. It could be Creavey as I don't know where these
TES O-rings were purchased. Looking at the McMaster TES O-rings one can tell they
obviously are made by some one other than Creavey. Perhaps made in China.
Mic those O-rings when you get them for being the proper size.
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
The main reason I was bringing this up is that this may be a possible data
point showing that there may be issues with trying to use the TES o-rings,
similar to the issue with using aftermarket apex seals. Obviously, apex
seals are an order of magnitude more complex due to their dynamic nature
than simply choosing an o-ring, however if there is data showing that even
by choosing the right size (or closest size possible in this case) still
does not give the results originally expected, then maybe we need to take
note and react accordingly. I was under the assumption (which may be false)
that Rotary Aviation (which ā??Bā? claims to be using) was selling o-rings
sourced based on your write up on how to size and select them. If the o-rings
are incorrect in size, then we can not use this as valid data. Also, since he
did not properly pre-shape the o-rings, this adds an additional variable which
could make the data useless. I was not looking at his argument of quality control,
as I feel that is irrelevant. We are not mass producing engines here and each
part we use should be quality inspected anyway.
None the less, it is probably good for people to be aware of a possible issue,
and if anyone has had similar issues, it should be brought to light so others
do not make the same mistakes. TES is obviously a superior material if used
in the correct way, but if the o-ring groves in the engines we use do not support
the TES o-rings commercially available, then the outcome may be detrimental.
So the main question is, can we confidently say that the installation method/o-rings
used by people in the post caused the problems? Also, have enough flight hours
or vehicle hours been logged with the proper TES o-ring installed the proper
way to show that commercially available TES o-rings can be used in this application
with good results (better than stock o-rings)?
Heath
The size and the O-ring groves are compatible. I checked a long time
ago with Jeff Chrysler owner of Creavey about it. He suggested the proper
size.
I just spoke to Tracy about it and suggested a change in packaging that
would keep the O-rings flat during shipping. I agree with Brian D. Cain. They
are very hard to install out of the package. They must be stretched
ever so slightly (a few thou in length ) and mounted on the board for a day or two.
I don't think I got that across to Tracy. We shall see.
Tracy would not tell me who he is buying them from but I got
the impression it was not Creavey.
I don't agree with Tracy on the apex seals. They are, as you say, far
more sophisticated and beyond just about anybody but Mazda's supplier.
However I don't want the bad apex seals dragging down the good name of
the Teflon Encapsulated Silicone O-rings. Otherwise I would not
be discussing it now.
BTW some of the coolant could be leaking past the tension bolt seals
that Tracy supplies in his kit. They consist of a simple washer
and an O-ring. IMHO that is not going to cut it.
You need real sealing washers as supplied by Mazda.
Here is a cat sheet from McMaster.
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
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