>>> Yes the show runs for several weeks. I will definitely be there with
>>> pen,
>>> paper and camera in hand. I'll go twice if need be to speak with the
>>> 'right'
>>> guys.
>>> >>> Everyone please get your list of questions ready.
>>> >>> Hmmmmm ... just yesterday I decided that with a one half Lemans
style
>>> engine, injecting fuel after the P port closed would be counter
>>> productive
>>> as the compression ratio would decrease encountering the cavity the
>>> injectors reside in.
>>> >>> Perhaps I should have waited a day huh?:) It just goes to show
that
> the
>>> more I study about the rotary engine the less I seem to know:(
>>> >>> I have heard from sources over here that the engine will run on
>>> gasoline or
>>> hydrogen. I suspect but haven't confirmed, the engine is set up to
>>> run on
>>> E-85 as well. I would make sense. The engine in the picture appears
>>> peppered with injectors. My guess is as follows. It looks like a
>>> (green)
>>> fuel injector on the left shooting into the side port, an oil injector
>>> above that, two hydrogen injectors at 11:00 o'clock and the high
>>> pressure
>>> direct injector at 12:00 o'clock.
>>> >>> With a small turbo this baby could clear 300Hp easily. Manifold
may
> not
>>> clear the cowling though.
>>> >>> Doug in Japan
>>> >>> Doug you forgot one thing about direct injection. The hole can
be very
>>> small. The material truly injected after the port closing will make up
>>> for any loss caused by the hole! A little interesting aside, when I
> was
>>> checking on the Orbital air assisted (semi) direct injection. They
>>> mentioned that several sanctioning bodies wouldn't allow the Orbital
>>> injection because they considered it a minor form of supercharging!
>>> Bill Jepson
>>> >>> >> Bill,
>> >> That is interesting. I wonder why with the Leman why they didn't
> angle the
>> injectors straight into housings. They could have moved the slide
> throttle
>> much closer to the housing then.
>> >> I could agree with you if we use the standard Mazda type of injector
>> because they can be mounted very close to the inner wall and for all
>> intensive purposes be flush and shoot through a sealed 2mm dia hole..
>> >> In the last few days I have come across the ethanol compatible
Multec
> 3.5
>> injectors from Delphi. If you download the PDF you can see what
> concerns me.
>> >>
http://tinyurl.com/yr7j2p
>> >> There seems to be a depression about 4mm deep and 12mm in
diameter. Even
>> placing a donut spacer in the bottom of the hole would result in a
> 5mm by
>> 4mm deep volume. Would two of them make a difference in lowering the
>> compression?
>> >>
http://tinyurl.com/yr7j2p
>> >> Doug in Japan
>> >> >> That URL did not work Doug.
>> >> Paul Lamar
> > take out the %20 and it will work
> -- Blake C. Lewis
> >
https://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_multec_mpfi.pdf
> > Ok Doug, oh and thanks Blake,
> Those are NOT intended for direct injection. They are MULTI-PORT
injectors.
> So your worries are a bit moot. Siemens is making a direct injector.
> (Common-rail)
> I'm sure Delphi has working examples if theirs isn't in cars already.
Most
> examples use a piezo injector. The set up is that the piezo actuator
is so
> fast that they use multiple cycles (between 3 and 5) per intake cycle.
> For alcohol you might just be able to use an extra cycle.
> Bill Jepson
> > You are missing something Bill. The 16B is not high pressure direct
injection.
> It is low pressure direct injection if you will.
> The pressure in the compression chamber at that point is way less
than what it
> is in the combustion chamber.
> > Paul Lamar
>
Bill
The terminology has me confused.
I am thinking common rail for both but have a choice of injecting into the
port tube behind the slide throttle (like the R26B engine) or boring into
the housing and injecting 0.5" or so before the oil injection hole.
It sounds like with these Delphi injectors the R25B manner would be the
better choice I'll try and find out some info on the Siemens design though.
I understood on the piezo electric actuator point. Thanks.
Paul
It is rather interesting to see Mazda's research path over the years
concerning injector placement. Speculation: Perhaps a portion of the mist
doesn't stay in suspension but hits the walls of the chamber. Injecting
further along would result in better results with direct high pressure
injection and its inherent challenges being optimum. This would make sense
when we see the following in the Renesis 2003 press information release,
page 8 under Jet Air Fuel Mixing System. "The system utilizes port air
bleed
in the intake port to effectively speed the flow of air over the intake
port
walls and boost atomization of fuel particles adhering to them"
Now which location is the primary?
Doug in Japan
Here is a pictures of that.
-- Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
Doug,
The terminology may be the problem. The direct-injection common rail fuel
injection is a super high pressure version of a standard common rail system.
On the diesel versions the rail pressure can be 22K psi. The Siemens gas
versions run about 18K psi and inject at near the point of ignition. The
assisted DFI I spoke about (Orbital) uses a high pressure air jet to
force the
fuel into the cumbustion chamber after the intake closes, but before there
is much compression. (max 4 bar) These systems require a completely
different injector than the regular port FI injector which injects into at
least a partial vacuum.
Bill Jepson
Paul,
When is this new engine going to be available? It looks perfect for the
helicopter I would like to build. Who builds that slick front cover with
the integral scavenge pump that was pictured in another thread? I don't see
why that wouldn't work on this engine.
Steve
I hope pretty soon. They should drop it in the RX8 any day.
The RX8 needs more torque real bad for us people too lazy to shift.
The dry sump was built by Ray Richardson AKA PowerSport for Mazda Comp.
I notice Mazdatrix has one in stock for only $3,010
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
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