>> >> paul
>> >> Have you heard anymore on the Honda engine by any chance?
>> >>
>> >> Tony
>> >
>> >
>> >> A Honda is a piston engine. Why would I even want to hear
more
>> >> about it? :)
>> >> --
>> >> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>> >
>> >
>> >> What Honda engine?
>> >>
>> >> Clifton.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Exactly!
>> >>
>> >> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Paul & All,
>> >> You are making this Honda guy who wishes he could convert to
a rotary
>> >> feel bad.
>> >> Best wishes to all for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>> >> John Lewis
>> >> N501BD
>> >
>> >
>> >> I am just pulling his leg. Tony has been on here for years. If
>> >> anything
>> >> he has a piston aircraft engine in his Long EZ. Tony is tough :)
>> >>
>> >> I think he is referring to the fact that Honda announced a joint
>> >> venture
>> >> with Continental to build a new and better piston aircraft
engine a
>> >> few years ago. It is now nowhere to be found.
>> >>
>> >> Every few years some engineering naive CEO somewhere thinks
he can
>> >> build a
>> >> better piston aircraft engine than Lycoming and Continental using
>> >> automotive
>> >> technology. Bombardier tried it a few years ago and stumbled.
Here
>> >> are some pictures of it as shown at OSH.
>> >>
>> >> It is a automotive type V6. 210KG 462 pounds for the 300 HP
version.
>> >>
>> >> Then there was the Renault Diesel. Packard and Junkers built
diesel
>> >> aircraft engines in the 1930's. Look around. Do you see any
aircraft
>> >> diesels around? :)
>> >>
>> >> Then there was the Orenda V8.
>> >>
>> >> Ect.,etc..
>> >>
>> >> Ect.,etc..
>> >>
>> >> I could go on and on.
>> >>
>> >> The truth of the matter is the air cooled aircraft engine as
we know
>> >> it is going to be hard to beat. The only engine with the
potential
>> > > to best it is the P-port Wankel due to its superior
durability and
>> >> power to weight ratio. It is also better suited to turbo
>> >> compounding
>> > > than piston engines.
>> >> --
>> >> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>> >
>> > Paul,
>> > Come on. It's Christmas. It's your Civic duty to help with this
>> > request about a Honda engine. You will feel much more Accord with
>> > the world if you do. On the other hand, you might be totally
out of
>> > your Element.
>> > John Dinkel
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't have an Element and there is no Accord in my drive way.
>> > (First come first parked). My travels have been an Odyssey.
>> >
>> > Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas to one and all.
>> >
>> > Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
>>
>>
>> Paul,
>> I am delighted to hear that your travels have big [been] one big
Odyssey.
>> I
>> wouldn't want people to get the idea that you are a stupid
Illiad [Iliad]
>> sitting Homer lone during Christmas.
>> Chris Krinkle [Kringle]
>> [AKA jd]
>>
>> Telemachus lives near by and Penelope is working but will be off
>> for the first time in five years tomorrow night. Suzzy has her
>> brothers and sisters.
>>
>> Paul Lamar
>
> Paul Lamar wrote: "Look around. Do you see any aircraft
>>>> diesels around? :)"
>
> Sorry to Grinch all the warm fuzzy Christmas-y feelings, but Yule
like to
> know about
> the Delta Hawk aircraft diesel engines:
http://www.deltahawkengines.com/
>
> Sorry, can't post anything about it here, because the lawyers have
> decreed:
>
> "Legal: You may view this information. You may not re-post or
upload these
> pages
> to any other destination on the internet. All files on this site are
> copyrighted
> by © DeltaHawk Engines LLC All Rights Reserved."
>
> Merry Christmas, Hannukah Tov, and a Joyous Samhain to all!
>
> (Was that politically correct enough? I know how sensitive
people on this
> newsletter are.) I wouldn't want to (gasp!) OFFEND anyone! :-)
>
> Les Nordman
>
> I would not exactly say the Delta Hawk was "around". There may be
one or
> two about. They only have had ten years to get it "around".
> It is a loop scavenged two cycle diesel which largely negates the
> fuel efficiency of the four stroke diesel engine.
>
>
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=94
>
> Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
I do recall seeing a diesel making inroads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thielert As for Honda making piston
aircraft
engines...you ought to give them more credit than Porch or those
snowmobile
guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Honda_HF120 They went to a more
profitable market, turbines! I think we are also aware they
designed their
own aircraft to put it on when no one bought it... Ooops.
Merry Xmas...Happy Hanukkah...and spend more $ as fast as they can
sucker
you into running up your plastic!
Tom
I see where Diamond aircraft is the only OEM buyer of the Thielert.
The only market for that airplane is twin engine pilot training.
I find it hard to believe anybody in their right minds would buy a
$750,000
163 kts twin for serous transportation. Chris Dries, owner of
Diamond, is enamored
with diesels as diesel fuel in Europe is not taxed as highly as
gasoline.
It is at least a dollar a gallon cheaper last time I bought any.
The engine itself is a Mercedes econo box engine called the A class
in Europe.
I rented one and drove it all over southern Germany, Austria and Italy.
I never saw more than about 170 clicks or about 106 MPH top speed.
The diesel A200 CDI has 140 hp (104 kW) and 300 N·m (221 ft·lbf).
As an aircraft engine it has a "TBO" of 1200 hours. At that time it
must be
replaced and not overhauled. The FAA does not want people going to
their local
Mercedes dealer and buying parts.
What is amazing about it is a Mooney Ovation 3 gets better miles per
gallon
based on the max range and the fuel capacity. Both have about the
same total
HP. 135 HP each for the Diamond and 280 HP for the Mooney.
16.38 Nt miles/gallon Diamond
18.23 Nt miles/gallon Mooney
What would you rather have a 197 Kts cruise speed Mooney Ovation 3
with a 2000
hour TBO or a 163 Kts cruise speed Diamond Twin Star diesel where
you throw
the engines away after 1200 hours with fewer miles per gallon and a 1000
miles less range? Not to mention a 200 FPM loss in climb rate.
BTW the 193 Kts obviously is the never exceed speed in a dive for
the Twin Star.
No contest :)
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
Eesh Paul. The TBO on the Thielert is going to be increased to 2400
hours. For now, when they replace them at 1200 hours, you only pay half
the price of a new engine (about $12k each).
I wonder whether any of the 280hp turbocharged Continentals actually
make it to its 2000 hour TBO. My 230hp NA engine wouldn't likely.
Merry Christmas,
Matt-
The Mooney Ovation version is not a turbo and has a 2000 foot higher service
ceiling no less.
2400 hours? When? Has the FAA agreed to that yet?
We will see if Thielert are still around in ten years (120 hours a year) or 20 years
(60 hours a year which is more typical). Frankly I doubt it. It will go the
way of the Porsche AC engine. Also is inflation figured in on that $12,000 number?
Your C182 O-470 is probably like my first O-470 with a 1500 hour TBO.
I got a one time STC and put in a O-470 "U" version which does have a 2000 hour TBO.
Only cost me $500 more for the factory reman "U" version.
BTW for the same payload the Diamond Twin Star empty weight is about 1000 pounds
more than the Mooney.
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
The Rotary Engine NewsLetter. Powered by Linux.
ACRE NL web site.
http://www.rotaryeng.net
Copyright 1998-2007 All world wide rights reserved.