Subject: Oil to water heat exchanger data
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 2/26/2008, 12:50 PM
To: AARotary Engine



                       I went back and checked some old messages prior to
               installing the
                       oil water
                       HX but you never mentioned OAT or climb. Do you
   remember
               what that
                       may have
                       been?

                       "To answer your question on water temps; the
   water temps
               were never
                       a problem.
                       They would stabilize around 135-150, depending
   on MAP."

                       Sounds like your glycol system was very
   effective if not
               over kill.
                       Do you recall the size of the rad?

                       Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.


                   Paul,
                   The application was Ford Galaxy (probably w/390ci
   engine,
           but not
                   stated).  Core size is 18 x 22.5 x 2.5, best I
       recall.  Initial
               flight
                   was in August and the temps were in the mid 90's.

                   Mark S.


                   You obviously did a great job on the rad ducting. Core
       volume
               appears to
                   be about 1000 cubic inches where our rule of thumb call
       for 300
                   cubic inch
                   per rotor or about 900 at the max for a 3 rotor.

                   What I can't understand is why the oil cooler is not
   working
           better.
                   Perhaps you have some air leaks in the front duct or the
           back side
                   of the oil
                   cooler is too hot. Can you make some air temps
   measurements
           behind
                   the oil cooler?
                   What brand of oil cooler is that?
                   --
                   Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.


               It appears the oil cooler and glycol cooler exhaust into the
       same
               chamber/plenum (main volume of the cowl..  If the
   delta-P across
           the oil
               cooler is larger than the delta-P for the glycol cooler, it
       might
               explain the difference.  Maybe the oil cooler is
   thicker?  Is
           there room
               for a dedicated duct for the oil cooler to the outside of
       the cowl -
               maybe out the left side adjacent and aft of the cooler?


               Regards,

               Matt-


           Matt,
           Yes, the oil cooler is 3/8" thicker than the glycol
       exchanger.  Also,
           maybe more significant, is that the fin count is much higher for
       the oil
           cooler, resulting in higher drag/pressure drop across it.  I had
           considered adding a dedicated exit duct for the oil cooler, but
       didn't
           want to pay the drag penalty.  That's when I decided to try the
           oil-to-water exchanger.  The beauty with that solution is that
       it didn't
           cost me any additional cooling drag. I feel that if I could
   fit a
           slightly larger glycol exchanger in place of what I'm running
       now, that
           I could eliminate the oil/air exchanger altogether.  I even flew
       with
           50% of the oil/air exchanger blocked off.  It was pretty close
       with the
           current glycol exchanger, but not quite enough to fly in Texas
       in the
           summertime.  So, I left the oil/air exchanger in place and don't
       have
           any more cooling problems.  That's a real good feeling.

           Mark S.


       Mark,

       So you're not interested in the cooling redundancy that Paul has
       suggested as a good idea - using oil-air and glycol-air
   exchangers at
       the same time?  I still think that would be the direction I'd
   go.  In
       fact, I'd make that a requirement, as I think it's something
   that could
       make for a more favorable outcome should the airplane suffer from a
       single component failure..

       Maybe it's just anecdotal, but the vaunted P-51 Mustang has a
   separate
       oil-air cooler, as I believe do the other Merlin powered aircraft
       (Spitfires, Hurricanes, etc).  I think the P-40 (Allison
   powered) was
       the same way.

       The Mustang had an induction air to glycol supercharger
   intercooler, but
       this ran with a separate cooling loop from the engine - and had
   its own
       coolant pump and air-glycol exchanger.  This allowed putting the
       intercooler where the directness/compactness/packaging is
   important.  It
       wouldn't be practical to have a duct feeding an air-air intercooler
       between the stages of the supercharger (on a Merlin).

       Please keep in mind, I don't have a rotary powered airplane, nor a
       liquid cooled airplane, nor even an airplane I built myself, so
   take my
       ideas with a grain of salt..  :)

       I also commend you for putting together an airplane that's running
       well.  I admire the accomplishment.


       Regards,

       Matt-

   Matt,
   I do have a glycol-air and an oil-air exchanger, but also an oil-glycol
   exchanger.  I don't see where removing the oil-glycol exchanger is going
   to improve the time I have to get on the ground should the glycol system
   spring a leak.  I may explore the possibility of building a dedicated
   exit duct for the oil-air exchanger though... in my spare time.  If that
   works out, then I'll consider removing the oil-glycol exchanger.

   Mark S.

   I am really interested in why it is not working better. If you don't
   mind,
   next time you are out there, please record the number of fins per
   inch and the
   tube spacing. Also if you have a water manometer measure the pressure
   on the face of the oil cooler at speed. Use the porous foam hot glued to
   the end of the sense tube trick. You have my cooling book.

   Here is a chart of dynamic pressure verses speed. The pressure should be
   .3 to .4 of this number in the center of the core. If it is higher
   or lower
   there could be something wrong with the duct or the porosity of the
   oil cooler.

   In other words at 120 MPH dynamic pressure is 6.9 inches of water.
   The oil cooler face should be in the ball park of 2 to 2.8 inches of
   water.
   The higher the number the less the porosity of the oil cooler. If it is
   blocking the air flow through the core excessively it should be much
   higher
   than 2.8 inches.

   If it is lower than 2 inches you may have a leak in the duct or the
   duct may
   be improperly shaped.  You can do the same thing to the glycol rad
   and compare
   the two numbers. It would also be helpful to measure the pressure
   behind the core in the cowl as well.

   You would not happen to have any data like this on the oil cooler
   would you?

   My brain is kind of fried. Pardon the pun. Perhaps perhaps Bill
   Schertz can tell
   us where we want to be on the 3 rotor oil BTU rejection.

   Paul Lamar



OK, I'll see what I can do on this.

Mark


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