Subject: Turbocompounding
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 11/25/2008, 5:30 AM
To: AAA Put this in the To box <rotaryeng@earthlink.net>, Aden Lindsay <aden@iinet.net.au>, Archie Frangoudis <archie97@earthlink.net>, Eugene Sandburg <eugenesandburg@hotmail.com>, Bill Hyde <billhyde@bellsouth.net>, Bill Phillips <bphillips@energy.com.au>, "Boyum, Patrick L." <Boyum.Patrick@mayo.edu>, Gary Byfield <Gary.Byfield@lycopodium.com.au>, Bruce Ryan <bruceryan@email.msn.com>, Colin Smith <cmsmith@bravo.net.au>, Don Tauer <dtauer@alltel.net>, Ernesto Sanchez <ratdoggidget@comcast.net>, Francois St-Germain <cgtyy@yahoo.ca>, Tom Chapman <tchapman@sharontelephone.com>, Fred Osborn <fosborn@infowest.com>, Joe Cook <joecook1@thegrid.net>, Mr Bryan Wilkinson <bryan@bry5000.uklinux.net>, Steve Beckham <slb@canby.com>, Juan Carlos <jcgarcia121@aim.com>, John Walden <jwalden@rcabletv.com>, John Bullers <midwestinfo@yahoo.com>, John Gibbons <jorogi@shaw.ca>, "Jr, Mt" <n82630@yahoo.com>, Ken Welter <rotarycoot.ken@gmail.com>, Jacob Link <jacobjlink@yahoo.com>, Mike Perry <mkperry99@cfl.rr.com>, Perry Mick <pjmick@verizon.net>, Drury Woodson <drury@woodson.net>, Rino Lacombe <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>, Rick 3 <rick@iconixresearch.com>, Tom Mondelci <tomm@4norpro.com>, "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>, Rolf Pfeiffer <rpfeiffer@rogers.com>, clifton younger <y.clifton@gmail.com>, Royce Wise <royce@wayxcable.com>, Jonathan Ard <ARDIEMUS@AOL.com>, Scott Gettings <sgettings@cfl.rr.com>, victor delta <vdelta@pacbell.net>, William Frymark <wfrymark@mac.com>, Bill Siegel <bsiegelfl@comcast.net>, skydoc <skydoc@wheatstate.com>, Chuck Dunlap <crayd@cableone.net>, RV7 builder <mcsophie@gmail.com>, Andy Moore <amoore@edge.net>, Paul Brannon <fpbjr2001@yahoo.com>, Ken Knevel <ken_iberville@msn.com>, Ron Freier <ron.freier@comcast.net>, "Karl R. 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Fix" <douglasrfix@prairieobserver.com>, Bob Archer <bobsantennas@earthlink.net>, Mike Little <mlittle@surfside.net>, Benito Luna <bluna@fbdfrozen.com>, peter morrison <pm_9755@hotmail.com>, Merle Zingg <mlzingg@yahoo.com>, WL VANCE <lndftdmnd@nethere.com>, Patricia Sanders <sanderspatricia14@yahoo.com>, jesse farr <jesse@jessfarr.com>, Daniel Clark <dclark@nwlink.com>, Marc Pedings <pedings@gmail.com>, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>, Guerdon Mitchell <guerdonmitchell@yahoo.com>, Dennis Himmler <dhimmler@comcast.net>, Tom Holt <cozy1212@msn.com>, Blake Lewis <blake.lewis@gmail.com>, Jay caldwell <caldwell@mswin.net>, LongEZ Tony <tonyslongez@cox.net>, Mark Wrathall <wrathall@aon.at>, Geir Anderson <flybush@hotmail.com>, Fred Kessler <acfkessler@cox.net>, Jose Choy <jose.choy@lamargas.com>, randy echtinaw <rjechtinaw@toast.net>, GREG FLEMING <gregfleming@rogers.com>, Aubrey Thompson <athomp58@bellsouth.net>, Rick Pickett <rpickett2@embarqmail.com>, Peter Godden <peterg@bsr.com.au>, Robert Wright <rwright@gmail.com>, Andrew Sullivan <andrew@frontier.net>, Edward Sadler <pebvjs@gmail.com>, Hans-Heinrich Duensing <Hans-Heinrich.Duensing@onlinehome.de>, Tom Kimsey <kimseyco@gmail.com>, Ram Gogineni <sgogineni@hotmail.com>, Charles Lin <clin@mail.com>, Rich Roopnarine <flierromeo@aim.com>, Terry Barger <tabarg@gmail.com>, Joe Graham <ezbldr@gmail.com>, John McAvoy <waiter@iflyez.com>, Al Dunn <wallwalker500@yahoo.com>, vincent robertson <vandbrobertson@gmail.com>, John Magdsick <magic765@msn.com>, Jim Springer <jim@sixspringers.com>, Jarrett & Heidi Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>, John Bell <aerobatt7@netscape.net>, Geoff GWP Design <gwpdesign@lineone.net>, Michael White <rv8rmoose@comcast.net>, Will Simmons <wsimmons3@gmail.com>, "Spencer W. Robinson" <swrobinson@prodigy.net>, don dunbar <ddunbar@echidna.id.au>, Joseph Seays <jseays@yahoo.com>, Scott Cragg <scott.cragg@gmail.com>, Joe Berki <jskmberki@alltel.net>, Zeke Smith <psmith@napanet.net>, Barber Law Firm <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>, Christoph Tomasson <ctomasson@gmail.com>, Marc Cook <marc@kitplanes.com>, ANTHONY AMBROSIO <aambro@worldnet.att.net>, Matthew Webber <mattywebber@yahoo.com>, Dave Myth <myth55@netzero.net>, Brian Beaton <briangbeaton@hotmail.com>, "Sharpe, Tim" <Tim.Sharpe@disa.mil>, Ken Powell <kenpowell@comcast.net>, Ron Smyth <smythron@hotmail.com>, Todd Springer <springertj@hotmail.com>, Ralph S Bruner <RSBruner@hotmail.com>, Jim Beckman <Jim@NewEcologySystems.com>, JAMES J BAIRD <taildrager@verizon.net>, monty powers <powersmo@yahoo.com>, Jean-Pierre Ducharme <jp.ducharme@videotron.ca>, Don Bencivenni <bencivennid@att.net>, Andre Abreu <andre_abreu_2000@yahoo.com>, GLEN T ROSEL <gdrosel@sbcglobal.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christian_=D6ster?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?dahl?= <christianosterdahl@hotmail.com>, Gerry Hanscom <ghanscom@hotmail.com>, Tom Parkes <tkpark@cableone.net>, EDWARD MICHAELS <emichaels@prodigy.net>, Brad Gould <brad20j@yahoo.com>, jim mathews <jamespmathews@hotmail.com>, "r.w.forbes" <rwforbes@slic.com>, Gene Hull <ghull105@earthlink.net>, Brian Trubee <bktrub@yahoo.com>, ray atkinson <raybot@comcast.net>, Bill Hanson <billhanson@wigglin.com>, Clarence Sams <whitsams@earthlink.net>, Steve Yogi Behr <yogisod@hotmail.com>, GLENN CROWDER <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>, Gary Buster <gary.buster@suddenlink.net>, mark waldron <waldronm@hotmail.com>, Larry Childs <larry@designitprototype.com>, Gary Wise <Wiseguy910@aol.com>, Henry Vogt <vogthenry@yahoo.ca>, Bill Jepson <WRJJRS@aol.com>, Jurg Sommerauer <Juso@aerovisions.com>, Mark Kirkpatrick <sahobby1@hotmail.com>, Norman DeBoer <nmbmbdeboer@msn.com>, Jamie Hamlin <jhamlin.vansrv7@yahoo.com>, Andy Hecker <ahecker@satx.rr.com>, Bo Mears <admin@lotsacars.com>, Thomas Rebhan <T.Rebhan@gmx.net>, "Marinus B. (Ben) Bosma" <ben@bosma.com>, Matt Prather 2 <ezeflierid@gmail.com>, Ron Simard <ronsnxt7@gmail.com>, John Dinkel <eleven-tenths@cox.net>, "Michael A. Jerger" <michaeljerger@hotmail.com>, Joel Mayhall <jmay2174@yahoo.com>, Russell Aman <xkunan@yahoo.com>, William Doell <wellnessdoc33@yahoo.com>, Dave Gaze <david@corporatesystems.com.au>, Jonathan <jrimington@creativedirector.com>, Steve Fritsch <steve.fr@verizon.net>, keith stevens <keith909@comcast.net>, greg sanchez Todey <snchzgrg@yahoo.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Lefebvre?= <sebastien.lefebvre@lhaviation.com>, Cary Beazley <cbeazley@magma.ca>, "Kevin K. Wong " <kwong@stonecracker.com>, "Mark Pascall (On Call Service San Diego)" <markpascall@cox.net>, Ed Brady <ebradyirma@gmail.com>, Steve Veach <steve.veach@mac.com>, Grant Johnson 2 <johnsongrant2@qwest.net>, Philip Groelz <pgroelz@yahoo.com>, Marc Wiese <cardmarc@charter.net>, "Alfonso J. Lebron-Berges" <alebron@bellsouth.net>, Mike Parker <mdparker9a@msn.com>, Kevin Richey 2 <kbr1954@yahoo.com>, Dan Grunspan <danielgrunspan@gmail.com>, Ron C <rconc@juno.com>, "E. Thompson" <xactyl@yahoo.com>, "Clint \"Sandy\" McNabb" <mink@cebridge.net>, Brendan Fitzpatrick <floatinghome1@yahoo.com>, Al Wertz <Albwertz@cs.com>, Rick Pitts <drp@kuskoae.com>, Pierre Swanepoel <Pierre.Swanepoel@goreefers.co.za>, Paul Kvernplassen <k11@kvernplassen.com>, Keith Burris <burris@crystalpeaks.com>, tony milko <t.milko@excite.com>, njomo knyata <njomo_k@hotmail.com>, Steve Reed <jefl@aol.com>, robert pay <robertpay@gmail.com>, DAVID BARKER <david_barker@MSN.COM>, george lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>, Rolland Savoie <rollandsavoie@yahoo.com>, "EXT-Collier, Michael D" <Michael.D.Collier2@boeing.com>, Heath Holbrook <heath.holbrook@charter.net>, Terry Wilson <tswilson123@gmail.com>, Michael Francisco <coachwoody@gmail.com>, Charles Tucker <xtucker@charter.net>, "Shirley, Lloyd" <lshirley@upci.org>, Adrian Eley <adrian.eley@verizon.net>, David D Custer PhD <ddcuster@wmv-co.us>, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net>, Richard Craig <cozyflyr@aol.com>, Jeffrey Martin <dogshed@gmail.com>, Paul Lipps2 <elippse@sbcglobal.net>, Graham <gma@printtech.co.nz>, "Detty, David W" <detty@BATTELLE.ORG>, "Capt. William Little" <capt.wmlittle@gmail.com>, Marc Joseph <jrmjoseph@videotron.ca>, James Just <jpjust.aviator@gmail.com>, Richard Shoebridge <rs@pswl.com>, Giuseppe De Cristofaro <josef85@gmail.com>, Gordon Brown <gordonlynnbrown@gmail.com>, Ernest Magallon-Graineau <ermagallon@free.fr>, Reiner Nikulski <reiner.nikulski@web.de>, Daniel Oshiro <danielmoshiro@hotmail.com>, Eric 2 <ericmpmail-rotary@yahoo.com>, Steve Brazil <sbrazil@rglobal.net>, Mel Avery <melavery2@comcast.net>, Mark Morland <markmorland@gmail.com>, rjnsr <RJNSR@aol.com>, Carl Schell PicAxe guy <chs1974@gmail.com>, Norm Farb 2 <stephen@minetfiber.com>, Thomas Gadd <ThomasGadd@Comcast.net>, Sven Nielsen NRS ceramic seals <nrsrotorsports@shaw.ca>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Folke_=D6hman_-_=D6hman_Konsult?= <folke@ohmankon.se>, John Prendergast <jprender2@yahoo.com>, Jared Humphrey <odinn84@yahoo.com>, Stephen Roth Embry Riddle <stephen.roth@erau.edu>, bets <betskarlis@gmail.com>, Milo Burrows <bmb2002@ywave.com>, Larry Graham <raunch_n_roll@msn.com>, leroy nelson <leroy4zzzz@yahoo.com>, Trevor Coutts <tjcouttsider@yahoo.com>, Bernie hb <Berniehb7448@wmconnect.com>, Burck Hantel <ab.hantel@gmail.com>, retxab <wingnut1a@excite.com>, Erik Snyman <erik@xsinet.co.za>, Wizzard <Wizzard187@aol.com>, George Lazik <glazik@wgn.net>, Alex Rose <a.rose2@comcast.net>, Gustaf Carlsson <gustafcarlsson@hotmail.com>, HERB HILL <hhill458@msn.com>, Anthony Liberatore <aliberatore@comcast.net>, tkplane tomakro <tkplane@yahoo.com>, "E. Morcillo" <enriquemorcillo@yahoo.com>, Mark Ladewig <markl999@comcast.net>, Petri Flander <petri.flander@kolumbus.fi>, Kenneth McKenzie <tennek@shaw.ca>, Roderick Scotto <roderick.scotto@gmail.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Melih_=5C=22Ta=FFfffffffffffeyanar=5C=22=22?= <mtasyanar@yahoo.com>, Wayne LeTendre <wayneletendre@hughes.net>, DENIS SMITH <denispsmith@yahoo.com>, Harley <harley@agelesswings.com>, Vic LaRocca <vlarocc@swbell.net>, L David Stricker <Snow_Board@cox.net>, dan stanzione <dfstanzione@yahoo.com>, Stevi <stevei@carey.wa.edu.au>, Dale Williams <dwilliams@vymac.com>, Thomas Phy <thomphy@msn.com>, HARLAN NELSON <nelson6029@msn.com>, Robert Allen <boberrorusa@gmail.com>, Dawn Mathew George <dawnmathew56@gmail.com>, Eric Barger Rotamax <eric@rotamax.net>, "Ted (Tudor Miron) in Moscow" <nevaracing@mail.ru>, Steve Hall <SteveHallPilot@Comcast.net>, Brother mark <Brothermark03@aol.com>, Scott 5 <onehobby@happyhobby.com>, FRANK R CLEMENTI <frcmerganzer@verizon.net>, Mike McMahon <mike@aeromotogroup.com>, ej neil <ejneil@sonic.net>, Ken Firestone <trock07@austin.rr.com>, Matt Olson <matt0@ozu.es>, Jim Hartung <jimandcarol@gmail.com>, Alagbaoso chibuzor <lagborcv2@yahoo.com>, Nathan Strubhar <wits1@emypeople.net>, Marlin Olson <olyolson1@earthlink.net>, Donald Allen <aeronaut@aerobiker.com>, todd russell <russell_todd@hotmail.com>, TOny disclosed <rx7glory@msn.com>, Ned Nikic <luke2034@gmail.com>, Keith Wood <krw@bctv.com>, david young <day6van@yahoo.com>, Bob Cataldo <vicbobc@bellsouth.net>, mohan kumar <flytechnic@yahoo.com>, Byron and Jean Buckingham <byronjean@jefnet.com>, Douglas Fir <fir@gol.com>, Don Mitchell <ATexDoc@aol.com>, Jack Hilditch <wmjack@t3cs.net>, bryan phelps <bephelps@yahoo.com>, Darla Moreno <dmoreno1@bellsouth.net>, Nate Oldham Airgyro <giedeo@yahoo.com>, Werner Raupert <wraupert@namibnet.com>, Lionel F Nanton <lfnanton@dons.usfca.edu>, David Scharfenberg <dave@winco.net>, Lynn Hannover <Lehanover@aol.com>, Rick Van Camp <ravc@earthlink.net>, Robin Ream <rream@satx.rr.com>, Les Nordman <leslienordman@hotmail.com>, Pierre Terblanche <pierreterblanchedesign@yahoo.co.uk>, John Nate <jnate@chromaticity.com>, Allan Rees <alrees@oz.net>, howard strope <hstrope3@nycap.rr.com>, hector pena <hectorpenar@gmail.com>, john durant durant <spraywerks@hotmail.com>, Wayne yang <taiyang60050@yahoo.com.cn>, Steve Webre <swebre@hotmail.com>, mike hoeting <mhoeting@gmail.com>, Scott-Carrol <carroll@lhvpower.com>, Ar Goldman <ARGOLDMAN@aol.com>, Mark De Roche <deroche@aerofex.com>, Rob Lutz <roblutztech@yahoo.com>, Kenny Aron <kenny.aron@gmail.com>, Bill S <renegade1991@yahoo.com>, Jim Rudholm <jimrudholm@gmail.com>, Todd Fowler <flyingfowler@hotmail.com>, Kevin Bell <kgbell@hotmail.com>, chris smale <csmale@bak.rr.com>, Richard Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net>, Ormand Hunter <hdbservices@yahoo.com>, Chris Wood <multiades@gmail.com>, william pat price <ppricetv@yahoo.com>, Bob Mears 2 <bmears9413@aol.com>, Virgil Salisbury <virgnvs@bellsouth.net>, Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>, Robert Gaither <robert@sporthornet.com>, Duane Service <dservice@comcast.net>, Sport Hornet Matt Gregory <support@sporthornet.com>, Roland Boteler <rboteler@gmail.com>, Larry LaGrone <larryl@matnet.com>



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Hello Paul

I am happy to have met you in Oxford and enjoyed talking with you.
I also just went through your website and enjoyed it very much too.
I like your copyright statements  :-)
But ehhh...  How about ?????????? ?????????? ?

And then for the humorists note of today a saying from Karl Lagerfeld ,
a German living in France
/The reason American cars don't sell anymore is that they have forgotten
how to design the American Dream.
What does it matter if you buy a car today or six months from now,
because cars are not beautiful.
That's why the American auto industry is in trouble: no design, no desire.
/
Very true today.

Kind regards

Randolph

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This is typical of the response I received from the engineers attending the  symposium.
They immediately understood the advantages of turbo compounding and jumped on it.
I would not be a bit surprised if Porsche, Renault and Audi have not already started work.
Those are the three engine R&D  types I know about that attended the
symposium. You could see
light bulbs lighting up on faces all over the place.

This reminds me of the enthusiastic response the Wright brothers received in Europe compared to
the tepid response they received in the U.S.. Europeans tend to be more
receptive to innovation.
I can't figure it out. Are Europeans better educated in technical matters?
I can see they have a lot more to gain as the price of fuel in Europe is a lot higher than it is in the US.

I am now working on a turbo compound  article to submit to Race Tech
magazine.

Paul Lamar


Paul,

The main problem is inherent with many (not all) of our higher education
institutions. You take a new kid, send him through 4 to 8 years of college,
then hire him and give him a job designing an engine mount for a new car.
The kid has never even worked on his own car, let alone worked in a dealer
service department as a tech or on the assembly line putting things
together. He may not even be sure which end of a screwdriver to use. And we
expect him to have the insight to be able to design a part that not only
functions well, but is easy to service. The problem is he doesn't have the
practical background to fall back on.
I firmly believe that our education system needs to change. The intern
program is very short sided.
If you want to be an Automotive Engineer, do your first 2 years getting your
general education stuff and some preliminary engineering classes. Then go
spend a year or two in the trenches of repair, manufacturing and even
racing. Now go back to school and finish the engineering degree. All of a
sudden you have engineers who are thinking and relating to what the class is
all about, instead of trying to find the next beer party.....
Do the same thing for Aerospace, Electronics....
Just my 2 cents,
Larry

I agree Larry. I started working on dirt track race cars when I was 12 years old.
Here are some shots of the facilitates that Brookes U here in Oxford uses to train
race car engineers. That includes four complete sound proof dyno rooms and a four
poster car shaker. They are in the process of adding a wind tunnel. I might add
that this has paid off handsomely because Brit engineers dominate
world wide car racing organizations and that includes Ferrari.


Paul Lamar



Larry, Paul,

It  seems Japan Inc. recognize this as well, because the real training
starts when the newbie enters the company.

 " A recent graduate of a MIT made his appearance at the corporate
office and upon meeting the president received a mop with the
instructions to clean the hallway floor.   He complained "I can't do
this  work, I was hired as an engineer."   "Right," says the
president, "I forgot... you are a college grad." "Let me show you
how."

One thought on turbo compounding and dynamic energy recovery.  Why not do
both? The race car
would have some lower BSFC  and/or power merits on the straights and
coming out of  curves but the T.C system does nothing to recover energy
upon braking.  Looking at the compound rotary turbine and its connected
mass as a flywheel however, then perhaps braking could accelerate it
even more.

The flywheel becomes the energy source and braking and a downsized
computer controlled engine the power sources.  Brake wear is almost
eliminated,  engine is way downsized and
run at its most efficient speed. The connection to the flywheel/turbine
from the engine could be mechanical with an over running clutch.

And what would be the connection between the wheels and the flywheel?

Hydraulics or electric?  My bet would be on electric in-wheel motors.
The race car is a complicated study in total efficiency and not the
least of the challenges is overcoming air resistance, and maintaining
traction.   In-the-wheel air cooled motors are a big plus for delivering
power and weight exactly were it is needed.   Yes wire efficiency is not
as great as direct mechanical shaft connection but the car is not
battery powered, it is flywheel powered.

Doug in Japan



Hello Paul,

Thanks for the messages. indeed many engineers don't know how to hold a
screwdriver.
I did a lot of automatic gearbox assembly and disassembly, mechanical
tuning and learned a lot from it.

We (the bright engineers) have the responsibility to create a new dream
and we should use marketing to get it to the masses.
We are not at the service of the marketeers; they should get the good
things to the masses. But the engineering has to be good in the first place.
To get there it requires a lot of knowledge including of history of
engineering. There have been so many marvels of engineering that got
forgotten and we often reinvent the wheel. Or we do it wrong. I will
work my way through turbo compounding. and see big opportunities for
power generation (stable speed, relatively stable load)

Is all your important information on your website?

Best regards

Randolph Toom
Managing Director
heat2power SARL

Not all of it as I am working on new additions constantly.
Also revising some of the old stuff.

Paul Lamar
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