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   >
   >> Hello Paul
   >>
   >> I am happy to have met you in Oxford and enjoyed talking with you.
   >> I also just went through your website and enjoyed it very much too.
   >> I like your copyright statements  :-)
   >> But ehhh...  How about ?????????? ?????????? ?
   >>
   >> And then for the humorists note of today a saying from Karl Lagerfeld
   ,
   >> a German living in France
   >> /The reason American cars don't sell anymore is that they have
   forgotten
   >> how to design the American Dream.
   >> What does it matter if you buy a car today or six months from now,
   >> because cars are not beautiful.
   >> That's why the American auto industry is in trouble: no design, no
   desire.
   >> /
   >> Very true today.
   >>
   >> Kind regards
   >>
   >> Randolph
   >>
   >> --
   >> =====================================================================
   >> Randolph Toom
   >> Managing Director
   >> heat2power SARL
   >> 7 Rue Adolphe Focillon
   >> 75014 Paris
   >> Telephone : +339 5174 7268
   >> Mobile :    +336 1103 4127
   >> Fax :       +318 7784 5560
   >> Email :     r.toom@heat2power.net
   >> Web :       www.heat2power.net
   >> VCard :     http://www.heat2power.net/vcards/Randolph_Toom.vcf
   >> ====================================================================
   >>
   >>
   >> This is typical of the response I received from the engineers
   attending
   >> the
   >> symposium.
   >> They immediately understood the advantages of turbo compounding and
   jumped
   >> on it.
   >> I would not be a bit surprised if Porsche, Renault and Audi have not
   >> already
   >> started work.
   >> Those are the three engine R&D  types I know about that attended
   the
   >> symposium. You could see
   >> light bulbs lighting up on faces all over the place.
   >>
   >> This reminds me of the enthusiastic response the Wright brothers
   received
   >> in
   >> Europe compared to
   >> the tepid response they received in the U.S.. Europeans tend to be
   more
   >> receptive to innovation.
   >> I can't figure it out. Are Europeans better educated in technical
   matters?
   >> I can see they have a lot more to gain as the price of fuel in Europe
   is a
   >> lot higher than
   >> it is in the US.
   >>
   >> I am now working on a turbo compound  article to submit to Race Tech
   >> magazine.
   >>
   >> Paul Lamar
   >>
   >>
   >> Paul,
   >>
   >> The main problem is inherent with many (not all) of our higher
   education
   >> institutions. You take a new kid, send him through 4 to 8 years of
   >> college,
   >> then hire him and give him a job designing an engine mount for a new
   car.
   >> The kid has never even worked on his own car, let alone worked in a
   dealer
   >> service department as a tech or on the assembly line putting things
   >> together. He may not even be sure which end of a screwdriver to use.
   And
   >> we
   >> expect him to have the insight to be able to design a part that not
   only
   >> functions well, but is easy to service. The problem is he doesn't
   have the
   >> practical background to fall back on.
   >> I firmly believe that our education system needs to change. The intern
   >> program is very short sided.
   >> If you want to be an Automotive Engineer, do your first 2 years
   getting
   >> your
   >> general education stuff and some preliminary engineering classes. Then
   go
   >> spend a year or two in the trenches of repair, manufacturing and even
   >> racing. Now go back to school and finish the engineering degree. All
   of a
   >> sudden you have engineers who are thinking and relating to what the
   class
   >> is
   >> all about, instead of trying to find the next beer party.....
   >> Do the same thing for Aerospace, Electronics....
   >> Just my 2 cents,
   >> Larry
   >>
   >> I agree Larry. I started working on dirt track race cars when I was 12
   >> years old.
   >> Here are some shots of the facilitates that Brookes U here in Oxford
   uses
   >> to train
   >> race car engineers. That includes four complete sound proof dyno rooms
   and
   >> a four
   >> poster car shaker. They are in the process of adding a wind tunnel. I
   >> might add
   >> that this has paid off handsomely because Brit engineers dominate
   >> world wide car racing organizations and that includes Ferrari.
   >>
   >>
   >> Paul Lamar
   >
   >
   >
   > Larry, Paul,
   >
   > It  seems Japan Inc. recognize this as well, because the real training
   > starts when the newbie enters the company.
   >
   >  " A recent graduate of a MIT made his appearance at the corporate
   > office and upon meeting the president received a mop with the
   > instructions to clean the hallway floor.   He complained "I can't
   do
   > this  work, I was hired as an engineer."   "Right," says
   the
   > president, "I forgot... you are a college grad." "Let me
   show you
   > how."
   >
   > One thought on turbo compounding and dynamic energy recovery.  Why not do
   > both? The race car
   > would have some lower BSFC  and/or power merits on the straights and
   > coming out of  curves but the T.C system does nothing to recover energy
   > upon braking.  Looking at the compound rotary turbine and its connected
   > mass as a flywheel however, then perhaps braking could accelerate it
   > even more.
   >
   > The flywheel becomes the energy source and braking and a downsized
   > computer controlled engine the power sources.  Brake wear is almost
   > eliminated,  engine is way downsized and
   > run at its most efficient speed. The connection to the flywheel/turbine
   > from the engine could be mechanical with an over running clutch.
   >
   > And what would be the connection between the wheels and the flywheel?
   >
   > Hydraulics or electric?  My bet would be on electric in-wheel motors.
   > The race car is a complicated study in total efficiency and not the
   > least of the challenges is overcoming air resistance, and maintaining
   > traction.   In-the-wheel air cooled motors are a big plus for delivering
   > power and weight exactly were it is needed.   Yes wire efficiency is not
   > as great as direct mechanical shaft connection but the car is not
   > battery powered, it is flywheel powered.
   >
   > Doug in Japan


   Adding unsprung weight is horrible for vehicle handling in bumps.  Big
   hp electric motors are very heavy compared to light weight race
   wheels/tires.  I think there's some multiplier that's commonly used
   for the evaluating the cost of unsprung weight - like 3:1
   unsprung:sprung.  I suppose brakes could be made somewhat
   lighter/smaller if the motor reliability is good enough.  I don't know
   what the offset would be.

   And then, you propose using another electric motor to transfer energy
   to-from the flywheel?

   Haven't we had this conversation?


   Matt-

Why put the electric motors at the wheels- make them sprung weight by
putting them inboard and using drive shafts like we do now with gasoling
motors.

Brian Trubee