Paul,
There's voodoo economics and now I'm a believer in voodoo mpg.

Chevy says the Volt gets 230 mpg city.
Let's see:  it will go 40 miles on pure electric.
It has a 10 gal. fuel tank.
The overall range is more than 300 miles.
Let's give it the benefit of the doubt here and say it will go 300 on
 its
gasoline, which is 30 mpg.
So add the 300 gas miles and the 40 electric miles and you get a total
 of
340 miles  If you divide 340 by the 10 gal of gas do you get 34 mpg or
230?
jd


The real question is how many miles per bucket full of coal?
No pollution in my back yard.

The other thing about it is once the batteries are dead after
traveling 40
miles you then have a 100 HP piston engine in a 3500 pounds car. Talk
about
a slug. That should kill sales in a milli microsecond when that
 becomes
common knowledge.

I can't believe how stupid the Government thinks I am.
Maybe it it just who THEY hang out with :)

Paul Lamar


I have to carefully comment about this dangerous path being taken by
 GM.
I'll admit that one could consider me biased, as I work for Ford.
That being said, there is a lack of appreciation of past mistakes
 being
repeated. Fritz has made a fantastic pronouncement of performance that
will
never be approached by the customer, nor has he been candid with the
equivalent carbon footprint of the energy cost/requirements of a
 plug-in
hybrid, nor has he touched on a cost comparison of energy
price/efficiency.
Hiding these critical metrics from the consumer will lead to yet
 another
breach of trust between the consumer and GM.
I would hope that A.M's experience in Boeing will keep him from
allowing our
marketing to slip down that slope of exaggerated claims.
This will come back to haunt GM.
C. SMith


As did the first GM electric car.

They need to get with it and improve the efficiency of the internal
combustion and quit throwing away half the fuel energy in the exhaust.

An external combustion coal powered power plant is 1730's technology
except
for the steam turbine which is 1930's technology. My guess is it is
 40%
efficient at best. A turbo compound Mazda Wankel could be as much as
 44%
efficient without all the long distance  electric power transmission
losses.

Not to mention the losses when charging the batteries and converting
stored
electric energy to mechanical energy to move the car.
On top of that you are hauling around 400 pounds of dead battery
 weight.

Paul Lamar
--

Paul,

Yes the current form of hybrids auto suck. GM is full of it. I guess
their
world is flat. Volt battery technology is already outdated by two
years and
it hasn't even launched yet.

Now total electric cars however do have a place IF.

IF: If the vehicle is lightweight, and used as a daily commuter or
delivery
van within a 60 - 80 miles of base.

IF; the maximum speed on flat ground is 55mph.

IF the car's battery is never run down past 70% state of charge thus
enabling at least 1500 recharges

IF: the car is charged up at home or office from the Renewable energy
systems.

The present choices for total electric cars are too expensive and not
practical beyond bragging rights.  Frankly who cares if an electric
Tesla is
faster in the quarter mile than a Porche.  Its the next 100 miles that
are
important.

The only option today is to use a small donor car and make your own.
 It
ain't that difficult.

Doug in Japan

Here is a recent article critical of the claims.


 http://www.tmworld.com/blog/640000064/post/340047634.html?nid=3351&rid=4
 427882


C. Smith

What is bugging me is they are using tax money to advertise GM.

Paul Lamar

 i thought the onboard ic engine only charged the battery and wasnt used
 for propulsion.  What am i missing?
jeremy solomon

 The battery goes dead after 40 miles. Then the IC engine gets you home.
 If it is charging the battery while driving home then you would not have
 100 HP available. Maybe with a remote control you could start the engine
 about 3 PM before you left work to charge the battery :) Then of course
 you would be getting zero miles per gallon :)

 That is probably OK if you can plug it in at work or you only have to
 drive
 20 miles to work and you can afford a separate $40,000 car  for just
 driving
 back and forth to work. You are not going on vacation in this car.

 My advice is to forget it and buy a Honda Fit or something like it for
 about $15,000. I drove a rental Honda Fit from Kyoto to Hiroshima
 and back and it is a great little car.

 A Suzuki Reno is a great looking little car.

 MSRP $13,839 -
 Engine 2.0L I-4 127 HP
 Transmission Standard:
 5-spd man w/OD
 Available:
 4-spd auto w/OD
 Curb Weight 2,745 lbs.
 Fuel Economy City 20.0 mpg
 Fuel Economy Highway 28.0 mpg
 Bumper to Bumper Warranty (months/miles) 36/36,000

 Engine Type       In-Line 4-Cylinder
-----------------------------------------------------
 Honda Fit
 MSRP $15,460.00
 Displacement (cc)1497  Horsepower @ rpm 117 @ 6600

 Valve Train 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC(r)  5-Speed Manual Transmission
 Curb Weight (lbs, MT/AT) 2489 / 2575  EPA Mileage Estimates
    5-Speed Manual (City/Highway/Combined)  27/33/29
 5-Speed Automatic (City/Highway/Combined) 28/35/31  These cars
are roughly 1000 pounds lighter in weight than
 a Volt. That means the performance will be much better
 than a Volt with a dead battery.

 Paul Lamar

I currently drive the piss out of my diesel Jetta and get 35 mpg local
driving.  i am perfectly happy with that.  But the GM website says that
the Volt's ic engine only charges the battery and is not propulsive.  my
commute is less than 30 miles roundtrip and we use nuclear and natural
gas to produce electricity in NJ so the costs balance out for me.  If it
is true that most people drive less than 50 miles a day what am i missing?
jeremy solomon

One can say that but then in order to move the car after the battery
dies one must extract the juice the the engine is putting into the
battery. There is no free lunch. It matters not if the engine is
not directly connected to the battery. The engine still provides the motive
power after the battery dies at 40 miles. Do you ever make a trip
longer than 40 miles? If not that is the car for you.

BTW what do you now pay for juice in term of cost per KiloWatt hour.
Will the price of juice go up after cap and trade? You bet.

Paul Lamar


Why have only one car?  Many/most families have several in this
country.  Why not rent a car when you take a trip?  Back when my only
rig was a Jeep Wrangler, that's what I did..  But, I wouldn't
complicate things as the Volt does.  Either go gas or go electric, but
forget about the whole all-purpose super car.  It's like roadable
airplanes - you get a crappy car and you get a crappy airplane.  :)

I'm surprised that none of the car manufacturers have teamed with a
rental company.  "Buy one of our electric cars and you get 14 days of
vehicle rental per year for the next 5 years.  If you need a pickup,
swing by and you can have one.  You need a minivan, we've got that
too.  All for one low price."  I won't be surprised if the Saturn
brand comes out with an all electric now that it's owned by Pensky.
Hertz will provide the rentals.

Matt-

That certainly sounds like a workable plan.
I failed to point out one of the drawbacks in IC engine mode
in this car after the batteries go dead. Assume the engine is
not connected to the drive wheels mechanically. We are driving
after the batteries go dead.

Lets say the IC engine is 30% efficient. The generator is 90%
efficient. Net is then .9 times .3 or 27% charging efficiency.
The motor is 90% efficient. Therefor when you are charging
batteries and driving the the overall efficiency using gasoline
drops to .9 times .27 or 24%. It would be better just to forget
charging the battery and connect the engine directly to the
wheels and haul home the the extra 1000 pounds of dead weight.
If there are any hills you are in real trouble.

I think Roger will develop into a real sports car and race the
Saturn Sky :)

Paul Lamar