Perhaps its time for a new front cover. The best place for the water
rad is
turning out to be on the spark plug side of the engine.  Unfortunately
that
complicates the pluming somewhat because the water pump inlet and
outlet are
on the other side of the engine.  Perhaps we should take a page out of
the
RX8 design and make a new front cover incorporating the water pump
housing
with the water coming out and going in on the other side of the engine.
Another problem is the pump should be mounted as low as possible so
any drop
in water level will not cause the pump to cavitate.  We built some
  remote
pumps a few years ago that used the stock Mazda pump cartridge.  One
other
point is the pump would be more eff.  if the water came stright into the
impeller.  Here are some shots of that remote pump.  I am looking for
feed
back here.  Does anybody else have an ideas they would like to see
incorporated.


  Paul Lamar

What do you guys think of paying $200 for this proposed water pump
cartridge?

BMW High Performance Water Pump

The BMW High Performance Water Pump is a direct replacement pump
designed to fit a wide range of BMW engines with no modifications.
That includes accepting the Factory Fan Clutch. The front of the BMW
High Performance Water Pump is stock appearing giving it that classic
BMW look while the back is all business.

 * Up to 20% increase of water flow over stock pump
 * Twice as efficient as factory pump
 * Much less parasitic drag than other pumps
 * Racing or Stock Factory Replacement applications
 * Stainless steel impeller
 * Heavy duty bearing
 * High quality water seal

I like it as it would be easy to machine the new front cover to accept
this pump cartridge. That is not the bottom line for the cost as one
must start with a 60 pound block of aluminum at $3 or $4 a pound.
Total $180 to $240 for material alone. We are not done yet as this
does not include the price of machining.

Is it worth it? I don't think so. Am I wasting my time here?

One could get a RX8 front cover and cut the aluminum pump part off and
it would fit a 13B. Or buy a 13B after market aluminum cartridge for
  $50.

What do you guys think?

Paul Lamar

Paul

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  I am for this 150%...I brought this up awhile ago............I would
  help in whatever way necessary to put this together...this is something
  sorely needed for an AC application...

  Find the right guts and we can machine components around it for our
  specific  design....

  what do you think???


  jeff



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  I don't know Jeff.... we are looking at least $600. A lot of aluminum
  to be hogged off and thrown away.

  I also like the Ford cartridge. What we would need for the Ford is a
  new WP housing that could be remote mounted. We would also need a
  water in and out fitting for the block.

  The cut off  RX8 pump could also be remote mounted in the same place.

  I think this would be a much cheaper way of doing the same thing.

  Of course there is nothing really wrong with the stock system and it
  works well.

  Paul Lamar


 Paul

 You get me or point in the direction of that impeller housing, I'll do
 the rest.......

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 jeff

 The Ford 4.6 L V8 cartridge shown is a high buck $150 Stewart Components
 racing
 version. Pep Boys probably has other makes for less than $100. Both will
 have
 the same dimensions. You can come straight in from the back side and build
 a
 radial scroll for the  output. We can test if for flow as function of RPM
 in the
 NC mill or lathe.

 Paul Lamar

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul,
the Ford modular engine cartridge is a great pump, but it is reverse
rotation. All Ford modular engines wrap the smooth side of the belt around a
smooth pulley turning it backwards.
There are several race versions of this pump available that work real well,
but belt configuration must change to use it. This makes the EMP BMW pump
more attractive for retrofit. I have looked at using this pump in the past
as well. if you want a ford stylel pump that runs in the normal direction,
look at the EMP system they use for the nascar engines. It has a cast
manifold with a 4 bolt cartridge like the ford pump, but with a different
impeller. EMP part number STE50003 retails at $195.
This cartridge flows 50gpm at less than 2hp. Their efficiency is from not
only impeller design, but also in the volute design. It would be worth
getting your hands on one of the volutes before making a new housing.
Larry

------------------------------------------

Thanks for the heads up Larry. Here is a shot of the BMW version.

Paul Lamar