I suspect Tracy's PIC has its hands full at high RPM
   reading this :) The single pulse by it self is probably
   rotor one. The wide pulse is probably rotor 2.

   I have no idea what Tracy is doing. He probably
   considers the single pulse is the same as the
   old 2nd gen crank angle sensor.

   The easy way is to use 2 or more sensors, one for
   each rotor, with only one tit on the wheel.

   The pictures say it all. The router motor and
   Harbor Fright (:)) motor control is the hot tip.
   This thing runs smooth to ungodly RPM's (up to
   22,000) thanks to Jim Poole's accurate machining.

   If you want a RX8 trigger wheel hub and you need to ask
   the price you can't afford it :) I have a spare one.

   It is putting out a very strong signal with .2 inch
   between the sensor and the wheel. On the order of
   8 volts peak to peak. That is a stock, high buck, RX8 sensor.
   Ill try it soon with the cheap $16 ABS sensor.

   Be careful. Don't let it come apart. It can kill.

   Paul Lamar

   Paul,

  That's great progress.  I would be interested to see what effect a
  non-concentric timing wheel would have.  I found that mine had a
  .0012-.0013" variation in the gap.  I decided to go ahead and switch over
  to
  the Renesis water pump which will use the Renesis trigger wheel and hub.
   This should cure the problem with changing gap, and possibly cure the
  miss
  too.  It sure won't hurt anything.  ;-)

  Mark S.

  That out of round is not going to help. It will vary the amplitude
  of the signal once per rev. Jim Mederer tells me that is a common
  problem with the e-shaft on the 3 rotor.


  Good idea to go back to the 2nd gen CAS. Does Tracy have a different
  software package for that or will it work with either?

  I have no idea what Tracy is doing but reading the RX8 trigger wheel
  and firing a three rotor is not an easy  thing to do in software.

  How are you coming with the Hytech ?

  Paul Lamar

  Paul,

  We had our two grandsons for the weekend, so I haven't had time to mess
  with
  it.  It was all I could do to keep them from burning down the house.  I
 did
  manage to slip away and go to the airport on Sunday for a few hours (as
  described above).

  Anyway, I'm a bit confused on the Hytech's purpose.  I know it is a data
  logger, but you have connected some sensors.  Is this to do compression
  checks, or verify manifold vacuum, or both?  I didn't want to exceed the
  limits of the sensors by hitting them with 100 psi if they are meant for
  vacuum.

  Also, with the water pump off, I won't be testing anything for a while.

  Mark

  Those are for manifold vacuum and a crank angle sensor fed into
  one of the A to D.

  Your right. The sensors would blow up. These are the same sensors
  Tracy's use in the EC2.

  What you will get is a lot of raw data that looks like this.

  BTW I don't think the 15 thou run out on the end of the
  e-shaft is the cause of the miss. At what RPM is it missing?

  I think you should borrow my RX8 trigger wheel hub and test
  the EC2 with out the engine running. I think it has a software
  problem over about 6500 RPM. You won't need the water pump
  for that as they engine will not be running. If the injector
  pulse width is not getting wider that is the problem.

  In fact come to think about it I suspect Tracy's system
  quits working after the torque peak as it is based solely
  on manifold press and max HP comes well after peak torque
  AND peak man press. If it has trouble sensing RPM
  over 6000 it will not feed the additional fuel needed into
  the engine at the same man press at the higher RPMs. Particularly
  since you moved the torque peak down.

  A car EFI systems uses a mass air flow sensor so
  air flow is proportional to RPM as WELL as throttle
  opening.

  That explains a lot.

  We need to hook up the Hytek and see what is going
  on in Tracy's system over 6000 RPM with out the engine
  running.

  It is like trying to determine what some one is thinking
  solely by observing their actions :) The hood is welded
  shut :)

  I have an early EC2 from the days when nobody went over
  6000 RPM. Tracy has changed the software from that time.
  We tried it on the p-port eng on the dyno but could not get
  it tuned. We gave up at $650 a day and put the Weber on.
  Perhaps we were having the same problem.

  It might be interesting for me to hook it
  up with the CAS simulator and see what it does
  with my scope.

  The bottom line is what does yours do?

  Paul Lamar


 Paul,

 I agree, it would be very helpful to do a bench test on my EC-2.  Bobby
 Hughes has a scope we can use and I'm pretty sure I can rig it up using my
 trigger wheel and my router/speed controller.  Bob Darrah could fab an
 adapter to fit my router.

 There are two reasons I think this may be related.  First, I can get
 different results by changing the gap between the timing wheel and CAS
 pickup.  Second, Tracy recently commented that he had a misfire caused by
 vibration of his CAS trigger bracket.  He built a stiffer bracket and the
 miss was gone.  As I see it, a wobbling trigger wheel would cause the same
 symptoms.

 So, I think I will finish installing the Renesis water pump with new crank
 hub and see if there is any improvement in how it runs.  I can then do the
 bench test if it still runs poorly.  Keep in mind that before changing
 engines this ignition setup would give me 7200-7300 rpm during the first
 few
 seconds of my takeoff run.  So, something has obviously changed, I just
 don't know what it was.

 It may be that my exhaust system is too restrictive and is causing exhaust
 gases into the intake charge at higher rpm.  Lynn Hanover has stated that
 the P-port engines don't tolerate exhaust restriction well.  That makes
 sense as a restrictive exhaust could force exhaust gases into the adjacent
 intake during the overlap period.  Come to think of it the rpm at which the
 engine began rough-running dropped after I installed the new muffler.  I
 may  be on to something here...  So, this may not even be ignition
 related after all.

 One question, what size air inlet should I have feeding the three 1-7/8" ID
 runners?  Currently, I have a 3" SCAT hose with K&N filter.

 Mark

 I'll loan you my hub. No need for Bob to make one.

 Well if you just go on area alone three runners are  8.28 square inches.
 3 inch scat is 7 square inches. There is also skin friction drag pressure
 loss in the tube due to velocity squared so I would go up a size or two.
 There is 3.25 OD and 3.5 OD SCAT and SCEET.

 SCAT is rough inside. SCEET is smoother but the inner liner
 has been known to come adrift and plug it up. If you switch to
 SCEET sew the inner liner to the outer liner with small diameter
 safety wire.

 Thin wall aluminum tube is best but I think about 3.5 inches OD would be
 needed. You might want to roll your own out of .025" thick aluminum.

 Send me some pictures of the P-port version of the 3 rotor.

 Paul Lamar


 Paul,

I've enclosed two pictures that show how it all came together.

You've confirmed that I need to enlarge the size of the intake tube.  Maybe
I can get some mandrel bent aluminum tubing and weld the pieces together so
that I only have two small pieces of flex hose.

Mark

Nice tangential muffler.
Can you get a Harbor Freight inspection camera up the exhaust
pipe far enough to see the small holes in the center pipe?
Some could be failing.

Also nice job on the K&W duct on the oil cooler.

Can I see a picture of the other side of the engine? :)

Burns Stainless has some .065 wall 3.5 inch OD
90 degree bends for $105. Too expensive and too
heavy.

Carve it out of Styrofoam, wrap with vinyl electricians
tape and make a layup. The foam can be dissolved with acetone
and the tape fished out.

Paul Lamar