Subject: Seal plate leak
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 6/9/2010, 3:46 PM
To: AAA Put this in the To box


Well, nothing seems to work.  I discussed O rings between the
sealplate and the housing with a mechanical designer at work. He did
not think it would work.  The holes drilled in the top are on a V
edge which complicates the sealing.  Those holes should be on a flat
section.  Even then an O ring is not the optimum solution.  I will
try again with a different combination and report back.  What is the
disadvantage of just sealing off where the tubes are with JB weld?
Even if you test it with air, after a couple of runs on the motor
it could leak.  Alternative engines are not a great confidence
builder don't want to worry about leaks too. Joe Berki Limo EZ

Take it apart and take some more pictures.
I'll see what I can come up with.

One way is sand off some of the anodize on the inner cover
and weld on a short section of 2 inch .065 wall alloy
tube. Do away with the thick inner flange.

Then connect the two with hose and hose clamps.

That way you can use the stock 1/4-20 bolts.
and the stock seal plate set up.

Paul Lamar

The story continues as I have tried numerous combinations to get the
seal plates sealed.

I am attempting another try as I am writing this.  I have no idea
where it is leaking.  I re designed the bracket to the slide
throttle so I could incorporate an O ring seal from the tube to the
slide throttle.

It seems that the soap bubble method does not always give an
indication of leakage but the pressure gauge indicates drop in
pressure.

The latest attempt involved removal of the RTV and JB weld from the
outside
after the seal plate was removed and spraying the silicone conformal
coat on first.  I need to get a fresh tube of red RTV to rule out
that the stuff I was using was bad.  I did manage to coat the inside
between the screw holes and the tube with JB weld but did not fill
the entire cavity.

I keep you posted

Joe Berki
Limo EZ

I don't see any rubber inner tubes on those side pressure test
plates. Are you sure the leak is not there? Don't use bolts to hold
them on. Use large C clamps. The bolts are just another place to
have leaks. Also use 1/2 inch thick plate. That looks like 3/8th.
Not stiff enough for 50 psi.

I think you need to start over.
Don't use the same bolts and spacers to hold down the sealing
block for the slide throttle flange. Use different bolts
taped into the sealing plate if necessary or do as I suggest
and weld the inner cover of the slide throttle to short aluminum
tubes and use hose and hose clamps to connect the slide throttle to
the
engine.

The silicone conformal coating is for the threads on the 1/4 28
bolts only. JB Weld will not stick to aluminum unless the
conversion kit is used and the instructions are followed
closely.

Don't try to get creative here. These details are important. I spent
months developing this process.

Paul Lamar


Hi Joe,
Before you get all excited doing things, find out exactly where the
pressure
is going. Paul may be on to it with how are the plates sealed to the
housing.
I would get a wash tub, cattle trough, the bath tub or the kitchen sink
when
Ma Kettle is not watching so you can submerge the whole area under soapy
water. Dish soap works good. With it submerged, you will be able to see
exactly where the air is escaping. Maybe the tire shop would let you use
their
tank. No soap but should be able to see the bubbles.

Dale Davies


Paul,

I guess I forgot about the innertube thing.  I used 3/8" al plate and
bolts
and RTV to seal everything.  Guess I will have to go thicker.

I think I may have a  tub for total emersion.

Thanks guys

Joe Berki
Limo EZ



Paul,

Will the McMaster Carr 1/64" film work for a gasket?

Joe

Where? Yes on the slide throttle front and back plates. Not on the
rotor housing pressure test side plates.

Paul Lamar

hi guys, suggestions if i might. it may be a little late for some but i
would blast the intake tube with  a very angular abrasive prior to the
welding installation.this will aid in adhesion when you try to seal the
adjacent cavity. a very liquid (flexible when cured) hi temp material will
work better. heating everything to help flow into the small spaces. the
thermal cycles will take their toll on hard/stiff adhesives and
provide "leaks"
james w.

--
flyboy

Another good reason for not potting the water jacket
cavity.  JB Weld and Devcon are rather solid while
silicone conformal coating and RTV remain flexible.

Paul Lamar


In another attempt to gather data,I removed the seal plate, red RTV, most of
the JB weld from the outside.  Sealed using the 3/8 plates bolts RTV and
pressurized.

I found that the leak was comming up the side of the tube and out of the
outer water jacket wall.  Only 1 screw hole seemed to leak (No sealplate or
bolts installed).  The inside of the water jacket has a coating of JB weld
which seems to work on the bolt holes.  I added more JB weld and plan to
pressurize and see if it leaks.  If it does I will attempt to remove most of
the JB weld.  When I started the process, I alodined the inside and sprayed
several coats of the conformal coat solution while positioning the housings
so it would run into the tube outer waterjacket part of the housing.
Obviously it did not seal.  I will keep at it.

Joe Berki
Limo EZ

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