Subject: Single Coils
From: Rotary Engine
Date: 7/26/2010, 8:12 AM
To: AAA Put this in the To box


  Can you lay out a simple schematic of the ADIS-4 firing two separate coils?
  One for the front rotor and one for the rear rotor.
  I was thinking the ADIS-4 #10 pin fired one coil and the  front rotor and
  the #12 pin firing the other coil for the rear rotor, I am confused by the
  12 volt power supply wire, through the #8 pin, going directly to the dual
  coils.
  I am using a separate ADIS for the trailing plugs and all four coils that
  came with the Renesis engine so I won't have a wasted spark.


  --
  Karibian


  A 4 cyl EDIS won't work IMHO.
  It uses two waste spark coil packs to handle four spark plugs.
  Using a waste spark on the trailing plugs is not allowed
  so you are one coil short.

  An 8 cylinder EDIS system on the other hand uses four waste spark
  coil packs (four single coils) So you can use two stand alone coils
  for the the trailing plugs and one waste coil pack for the leading
  plugs I think but I would check it on a bench test set up before I
  put it on a rotary engine. It is also possible to use four stand
  alone coils with the 8 cylinder version which is what I recommend.

  Which EDIS system do you have? You will also have to find
  a Ford EDIS trigger wheel.
  http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/36-1.htm

  This pdf covers the whole thing for a piston engine.

  Paul Lamar

 Paul,  The EDIS 8 fires every 90 degrees of shaft rotation so only half the
 outputs are usable on an engine firing at 180 degree intervals.  The hall
 effect sensor is mounted about 52 degees befor the ignition point and if
 hooked up to the EEC 4 or 5 computer backs up the timing for advance.
 Without an input from an EEC 4 the coils fire 52 degrees of teeth on the
 trigger wheel from where the hall effect sensor is mounted.   If I
 understand Karibian in his post he wants to use two EDIS 4  modules each
 firing two plugs at 180 degree intervals. If there are two hall effect
 sensors 180 degrees apart around the trigger wheel (18 teeth) each firing an
 EDIS module there are four independant sparks at 180 degrees. If the second
 Hall effect is retarded 1 tooth it will fire the trailing plugs 10 degrees
 different than the leading plugs. Leaving the 18 tooth separation and firing
 leading and trailing plugs at the same rotation provides a completely
 redundant ignition system.
        The EDIS is a waste spark system meaning that the spark energy goes
 to the cylinder with least pressure fires that plug goes thru the engine
 block and fires the second plug on the circuit back to the coil.  If only
 one plug is connected to the coil pack a path to complete the circuit brom
 the block  back to the other terminal on the waste spark coil must be
 provided.Firing only one plug will dramatically increase dwell on the plug.
     The EDIS  and Hall effect sensor are really light, inexpensive even if
 new parts are used so using two of them doesn't seem to be a problem. The
 parts are encapsulated in a plastic block so moisture, vibration, and low
 air density should not effect their reliability. Using two 4 cylinder coil
 packs does add weight but until someone weighs two of them as compared to
 four single plug coils the difference in weight is unknown.  Using the 4
 tower coil packs that came with the EDIS would match the electrical
 resistance and inductance of the EDIS and coilpacks as Ford designed them
 and would be expected to be as reliable as the car ignition. My piece of
 mind is worth a few ounce weight penalty using the waste spark coils. The
 coil pack is actually only two coils molded together with a tower connection
 of both ends of each of the two coils for a total of four plug connections.
 Two coilpacks is a total of four coils just like four individual coils just
 less mounting brackets to fabricate.

 george grimes

 I was afraid of something like that. Do you have a chart of
 a Ford V8 showing when each cylinder fires as a function of
 the crank angle? I have the firing order. Is the Ford a single
 plane crank or 90 degree crank? Must be a 90 degree crank if
 it fires every 90 degrees. Too bad I thought I was on to something.

 I guess you will need two 4 cylinder EDIS. With a little
 fooling around I think I can get one CAS to fire two
 units. Those are mag sensors and not Hall Effect.
 Hall effect require rotating magnets. Ford calls them
 "Variable Reluctance".

 I would not use the waste spark coil pack on the leading
 plugs with just one plug. I am not sure
 why. Have you tried it with out a spark plug load?
 I dimly remember from way in the past that could be
 a no no. Perhaps it arcs over inside the tower.


 Paul Lamar


Here's a pretty good shot of a Ford 302 crankshaft.  Note the
orientation of the offsets..

http://www.dimensionsguide.com/dimensions-of-a-crankshaft/


Regards,

Matt-

Thanks Matt. 90 degrees.

Paul Lamar

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