Here is a new diesel being developed for aviation. 500 hp and it weighs 700
lbs. I don't think that even includes the cooling and accessories.

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/101122diesel.html?WT.mc_id=101126
epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan

Couldn't a 4 rotor beat this and have 300 lbs to spare?

With all the money being thrown down the drain, you'd think Mistral could
have found some investors.

C. Smith

Don't believe it. It is a Mercedes V12. Austro Engines AKA Diamond
Aircraft are also working on just such a dumb idea. It is a wonder
the CEO's do not study engine history.

It will be "certified" in Europe by becoming a throw away engine.
If it is cracked at 1200 hours TBO you throw it away, No overhaul allowed.
The FAA don't want people going down to the Mercedes dealer and buying
parts.

This is the same situation as the Thielert 4 cyl and the Austro Engines
4 cyl. Diesel hope springs eternal since the early 30's when Packard,
Junkers and others built some. Lately Renault went through the futile
exercise. What these dummies don't realize is a diesel burns almost
as much fuel as a gas engine in the 80 to 100% aircraft power range
not to mention the power to weight ratio sucks big time.

Here is a near ideal structural configuration for a diesel aircraft engine.
(Read power to weight ratio.)

It is based on the old GM 2 cycle diesel engines with what is called
uniflow scavenging. Scavenging is the key to 2 cycle engine efficiency.
Unifolw scavenging is one of the best types but it is still not
near as good as a 4 cycle diesel engine. GM gave up on it for that
reason. The Delta Hawk has a much worse scavenging type so
the BSFC will be even worse than this engine.

Mystery engine of the month. Can anybody identify
it?

Paul Lamar

--------------------------------------------------
sure,but will a wankel run on jet a like a diesel

David_Parker


-------------------------------------------------
Sure but why is that important?

http://www.wankelsupertec.de/

Jet A is only 3.82 gallons out of a 44 gallon
barrel of crude. Gasoline is 19.15.

Gasoline is more widely available than jet A.

Paul Lamar

    G'Day Paul,

"Crude oil" is not the only source of diesel fuel whereas apart from ethanol I understand gasoline virtually has to come from crude. There are numerous plant sources of vegetable oils  for diesel fuel and diesel has been made from sewage sludge. I guess this is unimportant if the abiotic oil theory is correct and it's not a diminishing resource after all.

There seems to be plenty of LPG or propane,but I notice this is barely used here in the US, having to shut the tank off to go through tunnels over here seems to be overkill, we don't do that in Oz. Virtually all of our taxis run on LPG and other LPG vehicles are quite common. I have been told that the oil industry flares off enough propane to run the whole car fleet!

Some people are "fumigating" their diesels with LPG due to claims of improved performance and economy. Perhaps that would be a way of using diesel in a rotary, but it would miss out on the economy that goes with the usual high compression ratio.

I was surprised on filling the Propane tank on my RV to find that Propane costs about the same as gasoline, in Oz it's about half! This is due to different tax treatment.

Those who remember the British Commer "Knocker" with its good power output and great economy from its blown unidirectional flow scavenging two piston per cylinder engine would be less skeptical about aircraft diesels. There is a lot of out of date thinking about modern diesels.

John Evans
                   
The two piston per cylinder option was extensively investigated
by Junkers and others for aircraft engines and was abandoned. One would think
diesels would add enough range on the Lufthansa sea plane flights from Germany to South America in the 30's but not enough. The planes had to land
at sea and be refueled by ships.

The money spent on diesel AC engines would be better spent on turbo compound.
That was proven by the long range of the TC Super Connie's in the 1950's long
after the AC diesel approach was abandoned. A TC Super Connie could fly from SFO
to London non stop.

Trading off fuel for food is not a good idea IMHO. Brazil tried that for years
with millions of poor people. Luckily Brazil recently found a lot of oil. The price of food in the US is now going up due to the sale of corn for alcohol fuel.

Paul Lamar