Here is a new diesel being developed for aviation. 500 hp and it weighs
 700
 lbs. I don't think that even includes the cooling and accessories.



http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/101122diesel.html?WT.mc_id=101126
 epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan

 Couldn't a 4 rotor beat this and have 300 lbs to spare?

 With all the money being thrown down the drain, you'd think Mistral could
 have found some investors.

 C. Smith

 Don't believe it. It is a Mercedes V12. Austro Engines AKA Diamond
 Aircraft are also working on just such a dumb idea. It is a wonder
 the CEO's do not study engine history.

 It will be "certified" in Europe by becoming a throw away engine.
 If it is cracked at 1200 hours TBO you throw it away, No overhaul allowed.
 The FAA don't want people going down to the Mercedes dealer and buying
 parts.

 This is the same situation as the Thielert 4 cyl and the Austro Engines
 4 cyl. Diesel hope springs eternal since the early 30's when Packard,
 Junkers and others built some. Lately Renault went through the futile
 exercise. What these dummies don't realize is a diesel burns almost
 as much fuel as a gas engine in the 80 to 100% aircraft power range
 not to mention the power to weight ratio sucks big time.

 Here is a near ideal structural configuration for a diesel aircraft
 engine.
 (Read power to weight ratio.)

 It is based on the old GM 2 cycle diesel engines with what is called
 uniflow scavenging. Scavenging is the key to 2 cycle engine efficiency.
 Unifolw scavenging is one of the best types but it is still not
 near as good as a 4 cycle diesel engine. GM gave up on it for that
 reason. The Delta Hawk has a much worse scavenging type so
 the BSFC will be even worse than this engine.

 Mystery engine of the month. Can anybody identify
 it?

 Paul Lamar

 --------------------------------------------------
 sure,but will a wankel run on jet a like a diesel

 David_Parker


 -------------------------------------------------
 Sure but why is that important?

 http://www.wankelsupertec.de/

 Jet A is only 3.82 gallons out of a 44 gallon
 barrel of crude. Gasoline is 19.15.

 Gasoline is more widely available than jet A.

 Paul Lamar

       G'Day Paul,

 "Crude oil" is not the only source of diesel fuel whereas apart from
 ethanol I understand gasoline virtually has to come from crude. There are
 numerous plant sources of vegetable oils  for diesel fuel and diesel has
 been made from sewage sludge. I guess this is unimportant if the abiotic
oil
 theory is correct and it's not a diminishing resource after all.

 There seems to be plenty of LPG or propane,but I notice this is barely
used
 here in the US, having to shut the tank off to go through tunnels over
here
 seems to be overkill, we don't do that in Oz. Virtually all of our taxis
run
 on LPG and other LPG vehicles are quite common. I have been told that the
 oil industry flares off enough propane to run the whole car fleet!

 Some people are "fumigating" their diesels with LPG due to claims of
 improved performance and economy. Perhaps that would be a way of using
 diesel in a rotary, but it would miss out on the economy that goes with
the
 usual high compression ratio.

 I was surprised on filling the Propane tank on my RV to find that Propane
 costs about the same as gasoline, in Oz it's about half! This is due to
 different tax treatment.

 Those who remember the British Commer "Knocker" with its good power output
 and great economy from its blown unidirectional flow scavenging two piston
 per cylinder engine would be less skeptical about aircraft diesels. There
is
 a lot of out of date thinking about modern diesels.

 John Evans

 The two piston per cylinder option was extensively investigated
 by Junkers and others for aircraft engines and was abandoned. One would
 think diesels would add enough range on the Lufthansa sea plane flights
from
 Germany to South America in the 30's but not enough. The planes had to
land
 at sea and be refueled by ships.

 The money spent on diesel AC engines would be better spent on turbo
 compound. That was proven by the long range of the TC Super Connie's in
the 1950's
 long  after the AC diesel approach was abandoned. A TC Super Connie could
fly
 from SFO  to London non stop.

 Trading off fuel for food is not a good idea IMHO. Brazil tried that for
 years  with millions of poor people. Luckily Brazil recently found a lot
of oil.
 The price of food in the US is now going up due to the sale of corn for
 alcohol fuel.

 Paul Lamar


It is annoying that BS statement
 The price of food in the US is now going up due to the sale of corn for
alcohol fuel
continues to be propagated by informed city folk.
All the corn used in alcohol could be grown by two Iowa counties.
And no; I don't believe corn can ever replace gasoline.
Current prices are from world-wide export pressures and a very weak dollar.
China has 25% of the world's population and only 10% of the world's food
production.

Lifetime native of rural Iowa.
brian gochnauer


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

-------------------------------------------------------------
"Ethanol fuel is ethanol (ethyl alcohol), the same type of alcohol found in
alcoholic beverages. It is most often used as a motor fuel, mainly as a
biofuel additive for gasoline. World ethanol production for transport fuel
tripled between 2000 and 2007 from 17 billion to more than 52 billion
litres. From 2007 to 2008, the share of ethanol in global gasoline type fuel
use increased from 3.7% to 5.4%. In 2009 worldwide ethanol fuel production
reached 19.5 billion gallons (73.9 billion liters)."

"Ethanol is widely used in Brazil and in the United States, and together
both countries were responsible for 86 percent of the world's ethanol fuel
production in 2009. Most cars on the road today in the U.S. can run on
blends of up to 10% ethanol, and the use of 10% ethanol gasoline is mandated
in some U.S. states and cities. Since 1976 the Brazilian government has made
it mandatory to blend ethanol with gasoline, and since 2007 the legal blend
is around 25% ethanol and 75% gasoline (E25). In addition, by 2010 Brazil
had a fleet of more than 10 million flexible-fuel vehicles regularly using
neat ethanol fuel (known as E100)."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

If we can get 10% of our total fuel requirements from just 2 Iowa counties
then we need only 20 Iowa counties to provide all our fuel requirements.

There are 99 counties in Iowa so Iowa alone could perhaps supply
100% of the fuel used in the world :)

Paul Lamar


Brazil's ethanol comes from sugar cane not CORN;

From 2007 to 2008, the share of *ethanol in global gasoline* type fuel use
increased from 3.7% to 5.4%.

translated; means only 5.4% of gasoline IN THE WORLD has ethanol

Thanks for helping me make my point; high corn prices do not come from
ethanol.

brian gochnauer


So we only need 40 counties from Iowa to supply all US needs
for fuel.

I don't reckon I did :)

Paul Lamar