Has anybody flown with one of these?

    Paul Lamar


    I Paul, glad to see you researching alternatives.  I think you are
    re-catching the flying bug.

    I want to remind you about some of the extra work if you decide to
    change out that circular hole for use as a T&B rather than the microair
    tranciever that used to be here.  First there is the issue of making the
    hole larger, which is not to bad if you have a cutter, but a real pain
    otherwise. then the old screw holes are bound to give you trouble, not
    to mention possible interference with other items behind the panel.

    More significantly, you would have to end up completely re-wiring the
    comm radio.  If your replacement radio does not have a built-in
    intercom, then you would have to buy an intercom and mount and re-wire
    that as well.

    Thinking back, I now recall that mike was pretty sold on day VFR flying
    only, which is why he did not install the T&B or lights.  I agree with
    you that a T&B is really an essential item and lights REALLY expand the
    usefulness of the aircraft, even if you don't plan on a lot of night
    flying.

    That being said, the Comm radio is essential before first flight, while
    T&B can be added at any time.  Think how much easier it would be to just
    plug in a radio and intercom rather than re-wire the whole thing.  And
    don't even think about using a hand-held.  It is too cumbersome to
    change frequencies to use in a fast aircraft like an RV, not to mention
    poor reception and transmission qualities.

    Anyway, just my two cents.
    --
    David Leonard

    Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
    http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
    http://RotaryRoster.net

    You have some good points. I tested that loose Turn & Bank that came
    with Mike's RV4 and it did not work, I don't know why but it could
    be 28 volts.
    I had only a 12 volt supply to test it with. I opened it up and it looks
    OK. The motor brushes were in good shape. Klaus came over and looked
    at the panel and he saw what he calls a turn coordinator. It was mounted
    in the opening to the right of where the round radio was. He claims
    this is not the same as a turn and bank AKA needle and ball. He
    claims it is near worthless.
    He looked at the spare turn and bank AKA needle and ball and said
    that was the one to use. He told me German pilots are trained to fly
    IFR on needle, ball and airspeed. There is not a lot of panel space
    to work with. I'll know more after I get to work with what is there.
    Your points on the portable radio are well
    taken.


    I sure wish it had an attitude indicator or artificial horizon  as I
    feel that is a good saftey device. You never know when you might run
    into limited visibility. I have had that happen a lot in Alaska.

    The new solid state artificial horizons look promising. Especially
    if they
    take in compass, airspeed and rate of climb data. The sensors for
    airspeed
    and rate of climb are super cheap at around $10 each. I am almost
    tempted
    to build my own as solid state rate gyros are used in toy
    helicopters children
    can learn to fly.
    I could do a desertion on the difference between a rate gyro and
    an attitude gyro but that is a story for another message.

    Paul Lamar


    I think that Klaus is mistaken.  That instrument you have is a turn and
    bank just like a needle and ball, only the representation is much more
    intuitive.  You are right that a horizon would be better, but at least
    you have a nice big spot on your panel to put one if you don't get
    one of
    those solid state things.

    One popular with the RV group is this attitude gyro from true track that
    also includes a digital heading gyro.  It is very nicely priced compared
    to other electric gyros, especially since it is basically 2 gyros in
    one.  People who have them say they work very well.

    http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/products/ADI.html

    Or, you can get an autopilot built into the same instrument if you want.

    -- David Leonard

    Sounds great. Price is right. Is this solid state gyro or mechanical
    gyro?

    I think some of the moving map software for "pads" is incorporating the
    artificial horizon. IMHO this geo reference screen from WingX is near
    perfect.


    Paul Lamar


    I don't know why you wouldn't look at the Dynon D10- They are light,
    compact, have artificial horizon, altimeter, airspeed, AOA, mag heading,
    VSI, slip indicator, can drive an autopilot , give relative wind, input
    GPS and use that to drive the autopilot, Oat, and a few and a few other
    things short of making your breakfast for you. And, since people are now
    upgrading to the Dynon Skyview, you might be able to pick on up for much
    less than the ~$2000 they were going for a few years back.

    Just saying.

    Brian Trubee

    Technology is rapidly advancing with Android and pads. Cost are dropping
    like stones in a swimming  pool on solid state artificial horizons
    3D moving maps. AKA synthetic vision. Thanks to super cheap solid
    state rate gyros. The tech is well under $500 already including
    hardware and software. I can buy a toy electric gyro that almost
    flies it self for well under $100. Check out Harbor Freight.

    Here is another idea. If you use two cheap (less than $10 each)
    angle of attach sensors one on each wing and hook them to a computer
    you can build a wing leveler.

    Paul Lamar




Did I miss the link to these angle of attach sensors? I guess we could
use 4 to get level on two axis.

Sounds like another job for the atmel boards.

Thank you Paul.

Ed Carver

They are basically the same differential pressure sensors used in Tracy EFI.
There are merely two tiny pito tubes (just small holes) on the leading edge. One on top of the curve and one below the curve. As the angle of attack increases the pito tube on top looses dynamic air pressure and the one on the bottom increases dynamic air pressure.

The Atmel software would be trivial to write in ZBASIC.
http://www.zbasic.net/

Paul Lamar