GM= Ecotec
Harold Lunt

Yeah, I'm still getting 47MPG with my '92 GEO METRO!!!No
air,1625 lbs with 1/2 tank fuel, 3 cyl, 5 speed.  Such progress
we've  been making  :)

Dan F

Yup, you have to love progress. 1970 Mazda 1200 Coupe' got 40 MPG.
Same body as a R100 but a piston engine with carb. R100 had some
braces to stiffen it, so it was about 100# heavier. 1200 Coupe'
wasabout 1700#. Went like stink with a RX2 engine.

Dale Davies

Same goes for my RX2. Weight was 2300 pounds while my RX8 is over
3000 pounds with essentially the same weight engine. There was
more interiorroom in the RX2.

Perhaps we are letting the wrong people make decisions.
When first introduced, the Volt carried a $41,000 sticker, though
itqualified for a $7,500 federal tax credit. Is this the GM EV
allover again? Why are we, the taxpayers, having to subsidize
theseunpopular cars?

Paul Lamar

Yeah but ..... did your RX-2 have door guard beams and crash
worthy,energy absorbing bumpers, catalytic converter and other
smogparaphernalia and a plethora of air bags plus air
conditioning, powerwindows, remote locking, seat belts and crash
worthy seats ... evencup holders?  That and dozens of other
mandated features have drivencar weight upwards and made engines
less efficient.

It is easy to carp about car design but difficult to do in
practicein todays regulatory environment.

SD

My point exactly. My RX2 had air as I recall and seat belts.

Paul Lamar

In Russia/Ukraine they have an expression; smart people, stupid
machine. In the western world we have to make the machine smart to
protect stupid people.I worked with a fellow whose expression is;
stupidity is God's way of controlling population growth.In about
'74 the RX2/3 cars gained 300 to 400 pounds due to impact bumpers.

Dale Davies

My point exactly.  "Detroit" is not full of stupid engineers.  They
are doing their best but when you have to meet all the government
mandates for door guard beams and 5 MPH bumpers and crush spaces and
safe gas tanks and airbags and seats that are completely crash worthy
and doors that will still open and close after various barrier
crashes at 30 MPH and up and catalytic converters and fuel fume traps
... plus all the amenities that the market demands today like dual
DVD players  and on and on!

It used to be that there were plenty of cars on the market that
weighed less than a ton .... nowadays it is almost impossible to find
anything weighing less than 3000 pounds ... a 50% increase.  Yet,
when I was a child, 15 highway MPG was considered good and now we see
lots of cars that can make 30+ MPG on the highway.

I think the engineering skill is there but the market is entirely
different as is the regulatory climate.  Remember that old Toyota ad
slogan that went something like "you asked for it, you got
it!"  There are lots of really good, clever people at the various car
companies ..... and they are giving us what we have asked for, both
in the showrooms and the halls of government.  Does anyone want to
blame Ralph Nader?

SD

How about the EPA and the congress.

http://www.amazon.com/War-Against-Automobile-B-Bruce-Biggs/dp/0525230084

Paul Lamar


My note did say "have to build" implying regulations. No insult intended to
the engineers. It is the general public that is not so brilliant. We all have
moments where we have a lapse.

Dale Davies