All this is becoming too much of a project for what will likely be a
 one-time event for my plane.  If I plan to do any serious competition at
 Reno in future years.  I need: a new airframe with less drag and a higher
 Vne (most likely dedicated to racing), a 3 or 4 rotor, more time, and more
 money  :-)

 --
 David Leonard

 Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
 http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net <ttp://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/"****
 <http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/ <ttp://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/"****
 http://RotaryRoster.net <ttp://rotaryroster.net/"
 <http://rotaryroster.net/ <ttp://rotaryroster.net/"




 I am thinking of putting retractable gear on the RV4. I am sure I will
 get a
 lot of static from Van if he hears about it.  It is real easy to move the
 stock fuel tank outboard and add a root strake to house the wheel.  Much
 like a P51.  I will need to find a thiner wheel of some sort that will
 fit.

 With Mike's skinny cowl it will look just like a P40. Van warns about
 putting fuel in the outer wing panels as he is worried about increasedthe
 polar moment of inertia about a vertical axis in a spin.

 What he is not telling you is he failed to put a strake on the RV vertical
 stabilizer like almost every other airplane in the world has includuing
 most all Cessna's and the P51.  When the aircraft is in a spin a strake
 generates a powerful vortex and low pressure area on the down wind sideof
 the strake tending to retard the spin.  That is easy to add to an RV as
 there is already a fiberglass fairing back there.

 I suspect a lot of RV'er would like to retrofit their RV's with
 retractable
 mains.

 Paul Lamar


 Paul,  It looks like you could use a ball screw to operate the gear and
 have an access hole for a manual crank on the sidewall of the cockpit as a
 backup if the motor is unoperative.

 george grimes

 What would work great is an RX8 electric rack and pinion.
 The motor is hollow with the ball screw passing through it.

 Paul Lamar

 Hello Paul,

 We run into this when looking to Harmon Rocket modifications, á la Bruce
 Bohannon B-1

 RV-4 Retracts:

http://www.vansairforce.com/****community/showthread.php?tH338<http://www.vansairforce.com/**community/showthread.php?tH338
**<http://www.vansairforce.com/**community/showthread.php?tH338<http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?tH338

<ttp://www.vansairforce.com/****community/showthread.php?tH338<http://www.vansairforce.com/**community/showthread.php?tH338
**<http://www.vansairforce.com/**community/showthread.php?tH338<http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?tH338
 **"



 RV-8 version, page 8:
 http://www.vansaircraft.com/****RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf<http://www.vansaircraft.com/**RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf
<**http://www.vansaircraft.com/**RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf<http://www.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf
 <ttp://www.vansaircraft.com/****RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf<http://www.vansaircraft.com/**RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf
<**http://www.vansaircraft.com/**RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf<http://www.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2008/3-2008-RVator.pdf
 "**

 Fuel tank schemes:
 http://napwars.com/RV-8HTML/****Fuel.htm<http://napwars.com/RV-8HTML/**Fuel.htm
<http://napwars.com/**RV-8HTML/Fuel.htm<http://napwars.com/RV-8HTML/Fuel.htm
<ttp://
 napwars.com/RV-8HTML/**Fuel.**htm<http://napwars.com/RV-8HTML/**Fuel.htm<
http://napwars.com/RV-8HTML/**Fuel.htm<http://napwars.com/RV-8HTML/Fuel.htm
"



 Bruce Bohannon's modifed RV-4:
 http://www.avweb.com/news/****profiles/181769-1.html<http://www.avweb.com/news/**profiles/181769-1.html
<http://**www.avweb.com/news/profiles/**181769-1.html<http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/181769-1.html
 <ttp://www.avweb.com/news/****profiles/181769-1.html<http://www.avweb.com/news/**profiles/181769-1.html
<http://**www.avweb.com/news/profiles/**181769-1.html<http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/181769-1.html

 "

 The idea was to make a "Cosmo Rocket" on basis of Harmon Rocket 2 and
 twin-turbo 20B, and use it as "Vertical Drag Racer".
 With 500-700 Hp, climb rate would be just insane :)

 To use that as a Reno racer is possible too, but Vne is rather
 limiting - even with HR2/HR3 wing.

 Cheers,
 Petri


 Thanks for the links Petri. Can you get the attached pictures from
 the Bohannon link? My browser is having problems with those.

 It all depends on how far you want to push VNE. Most of these
 airplanes, where it is not paying off, are 180 HP or below and
 flying near VNE.

 Dave Anders went 256 MPH in his 250 HP Lyc RV4 with a constant speed
 prop. My ex hangar neighbor Tracy Saylor went 237 MPH in his Lyc RV6 in
 the Sun n Fun 100.  Also with about 220 HP and a metal constant speed
prop.

 Allen Tole Went 238 MPH in the Sun n Fun 100 with the early Power Sport
 rotary p-port powered RV3 or RV4 I forget which. Steve B?

 The dynamic pressure at
 250 MPH is 162 pounds per square foot compared to 104 at RV VNE
 of 200 MPH. Obviously there is more safety margin in there than Van
 claims.

 One guys weight estimate of 250 pounds additional is too high.
 Don't forget one loses the weight of the standard gear.

 However when testing I recommend a jettisonable canopy and a parachute:)
 Just in case Van is right :)

 I also considered a whole new carbon fiber thinner, tapered wing along
with
 the retract :)

 Paul Lamar



 Paul,

 just my two cents here, but get the plane flying and then maybe think
 about doing mods on it. Building a thinnner wing would be the best route
 to higher top speeds, but just how fast do you need to go? I think that
 if you are trying to showcase the Rotary engine, most people would
 realize it's performance capability when they can compare apples to
 apples, ie, a standard RV-4 but with a rotary engine compared to a
 similar RV-4 but with a Lycosaur.

 By the way, if I may ask, what was the purchase price on Mike Will's RV-4?

 Brian Trubee

 It is flying but I am not. I have to get some RV time to satisfy the
 insurance company. Dave Leonard offered but he is committed to Reno.

 I have some time scheduled with Mike Seger but not until the third
 week in Oct. I am still looking locally.


 I got it for a song as I convinced the owner he would get nothing for
 the firewall forward :)

 I'll be doing a lot of mods before the retract. 2.85:1 gear box and
 p-port are at the top of the list. I am not entirely happy with the panel
 as IMHO it needs a steam gage airspeed indicator. Right now all it has
 is an RMI for air data.


 Paul Lamar


Hey, don't give me that.  If the paperwork were done I would be there this
weekend.  I could get 5 hours flown off and get you checked out in an RV
all
in one day.

Looking forward to Reno....  everyone who feels motivated should consider
writing a letter to RARA talking about how great you thought it was to see
an on-the-cheap auto conversion besting what the 4-cyl lyc powered RV'
could
.... blah blah...

Dave Anders didn't do 256 at Reno, that is for sure. ;-)

But Paul,
Really, listen to me here.  Retracts on an RV is silly.  The airfoil
dictates such.  For less than the same amount of work and money you could
acquire an airframe that was designed to go truly fast and put in a rotary
engine.  You can find an old lancair 320 on the cheap, sell the engine for
almost what you paid, then install your chosen rotary.

IMHO, put a turbo 4-rotor into a lancair 320/360.  Rip out all the
avionics,
make it a race plane.  Then.... kick butt on the NXT's and win the sport
class by a large margin posting in the mid 400mph range....  all for less
than $100k.  !!!!

Run-out Lancair 320/360
Turbo 4-rotor
extended cowl
some weight aft for CG (won't take too much).
Custom cowl with no inlets
Cooling system is evaporative only (like Galloping ghost this year).
Speed mod what you can.
Use Mistral gear box with C/S prop
Megga squirt
ADI

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

We are waiting on the FAA guy. Robin will call him again tomorrow.
Her plate is rather full right at the moment with visiting friends
from Germany.

To get insurance we don't need that. The airplane will be insured
as soon as you tell them you checked me out. This weekend would be fine
with me. I did not know you had time. There are no hourly requirements
as far as the insurance company is concerned. Your word is gospel. They
love you Dave. Probably for your skill at off airport landings with
no claims :) The reason I scheduled 5 hours with Mike is because that
is his minimum. Not the insurance company minimum.

You could let me land a couple of times and that would be it. I have
3 hours of recent tail dragger time but an RV is different than a Cub
or Citibria. SZP is pretty busy on the weekends so we could pop over
to Taft and have the whole airport to our selves. One lands, turns
around and takes off. Then one does a 180 and lands again. Max number
of landings per hour :)

The engine installation is a lot of work. I do not have time to do
that again. You are a young guy so a Lancair 360 would be a good project
for you. You are right. A flying Lancair 360 would be the hot ticket.
The rotary installation would go quicker the second time around.

Probably the best thing to do is just take the rotary firewall forward out
of the RV and put it in the Lancair. Then take the Lyc and put
it in the RV and sell it. You will just need a couple of new motor
mounts.

For me the retract will take a lot less time and most importantly money.
Yes the wing is a bit thick. I suspect some retracts are not as fast as
they should be because of gear door fits or lack there of. If I can get
it to go 250 MPH on 250 HP p-port I'll be happy :)



Paul Lamar

Oh look a dead horse I can beat.  David, show Paul how to do a wheel landing
the the RV so he can see where he's going and land in a cross wind on paved
strip.

Van Vannoy