Hi Paul,

 I was thinking; ya I know it's a dangerous thing to do. Normally leads to
 trouble sooner or later. The thought was; could the rotor radius be
 increased a bit making rotors and rotor housings and be able to use the
 Mazda end housings. A bit more radius would increase the displacement and
 torque/HP with the same outside dimension + or - a hair. If people are
 going
 to the trouble to build their own parts, might as well get more benefit
 from
 the effort required. Yup, already thought about that some more also.
Mazda
 K
 factor is close to 7. You know they did a bunch of R+D with respect to
 this
 for optimal housing shape, apex seal lean angle, etc. R 112, e 16: R 140,
 e
 20. These dimensions would require end housing design also. The R 140
with
 a
 80 width is almost twice the displacement of the RX7 and RX8 engines.
With
 light rotors serious power would be possible. One rotor with 200 -250 HP
 and
 not much heavier than what you have now.

 Dale Davies

 The wankel is unique in the sense that any one parameter cannot be
changed
 with out affecting all others. One can stroke or bore a piston engine but
 other than adding rotors or rotor width there is no way to change just
one
 dimension and have the engine still work.

 Paul Lamar


 Along those lines though, you could "weld" two rotors together, build
 another shaft to accept this configuration, and double the cubic inch of
a
 motor. I doubt the shaft would hold up unless you lightened the rotors
 dramatically. But theoretically it could work.

 Bob Mears.

 I think it would work for awhile as the rotor bearing journal is very
 large. One might have trouble with the phasing gears however.

 I am rather surprised that so many changes were made on the 3.2 L 16x.
 That means a whole new Mazda engine factory as many of the machine tools
 are custom designed to make the 12A and 13B. That also means that no
 parts like end housings are interchangeable. Perhaps they are
 revamping the old factory with all NC tools. I know the RX8 engine
 required a few inserted NC mills into the old machine lines.

 If I were Mazda I would merely make the 13B rotors 100 mm wide
 instead of 80 mm. That would give the same 3.2 L displacement
 as the 16x.

 I am sure Mazda think the 16x is worth it but I cannot
 figure out why yet :) Perhaps it is more 16x low RPM torque but
 that could be addressed with a fast shifting paddle mechanical/automatic
 transmission. The RX8 would be a lot more fun to drive with
 that transmission

 The only thing I can think of is they
 wanted it to fit in the RX8 chassis as it has narrower rotors.
 A 40 mm longer 13B/RX8 motor may not fit. It should however develop
 over 300 HP. Over 350 HP with a trap door p-port.
 http://www.rotaryeng.net/RX8-******p-port.html<http://www.rotaryeng.net/RX8-****p-port.html
<http://www.**rotaryeng.net/RX8-**p-port.**html<http://www.rotaryeng.net/RX8-**p-port.html
 <http://www.**rotaryeng.net/**RX8-p-port.html<http://rotaryeng.net/RX8-p-port.html
<http://www.**rotaryeng.net/RX8-p-port.html<http://www.rotaryeng.net/RX8-p-port.html

 That and cost is probably why there is no 20B option for
 the RX8. If it were not for an artificial weight and RPM penalty in
 the Rolex GT road racing the 3 rotor RX8 would wipe
 out everybody.

 It has always dumb founded me why Mazda does not sell the 3.9 L 3 rotor
 in the RX8 and charge as much as a Porsche or a Corvette.
 The RX8 is still $28,000 while Porsche's and Corvettes are
 well over $60,000. Surely a profit could be made on a 3 rotor
 option.


 Paul Lamar


 They can't get it passed EPA but hears a thought if you direct injected
it
 and had side exhaust could it then pass EPA inspection ?
 I think what Mazda needs to do is come out with experimental engines for
 the experimental
 market bypassing the need to certify them until the market warrants it; a
 turbo normalized four seat experimental helicopter based on the three
 rotor
 would be unbeatable. Mazda could keep up with Honda at a fraction of the
 price.

 clifton younger


 @#$%^& the EPA!

 Paul Lamar

 They have the ability to fine business out of existence but the sentiment
 is
 appreciated. I, really do think Mazda should take their three rotor, and
 go
 into general aviation with it. do a experimental compound helicopter or
 gyro copter, go from there.

 clifton younger


 My 2004 RX8 passes Ca draconian smog rules with flying colors.
 The 2 cycle oil I put in the fuel apparently helps :)
 Here is the proof.

 What we need is more Co2 rather than less. Food and trees grow faster.

 Pretty soon the stupid EPA will ban Coke-Cola and Pepsi :)

 Paul Lamar

Some people think Paul tells whoppers. I think he takes some things out of
context
and say they support what ever point he's making just to see who's paying
attention :)
Paul told us already that he doesn't smog test his car with 2 cycle oil in
it. must be talking about rest of the time.

clifton younger

Not everybody gets my jokes :)

Paul Lamar


Paul,
not everyone's humor runs as deep as ours.....
:)
Larry


Larry,

Believe me, it can get pretty deep around here once in a while.  ;-)

Mark S.