I keep coming back to this design for that and other reasons.
 Also because it can be retrofitted to Tracy's gear box.
 The stiffness  of the silicone blocks can be almost anything.

 Not because it is my design :)

 Paul Lamar

 Paul, I am willing to do some of the leg work getting these parts
made if
 you like. Industrial metal supply is a few blocks from where I live,
they
 can cut most of it. Plenty of other cutting options nearby as well.


 And to get a prototype made, I can weld it up too. Have an 84
syncrowave
 waiting for a job.

 Ed Carver

 Great Ed go for it. I think there are some laser cutters in your
 neighborhood.
 I am in the boonies when it comes to industrial stuff. Are you up
 to speed on Rhino or Solid Works? Most laser cutters guys can take
Solid
 Works
 files. I can send Rhino files that will load into Solid Works.
 Mazdatrix sells suitable ring gears. Does Industrial metal supply sell
 4130
 sheet?
 Use a .090" for the flex plate. A bit over kill IMHO but fine for
 a test prototype. I'll test it on the RV4 after I get a few hours
 on it.

 You might want to make a prototype with cheap sheet steel to be certain
 everything fits on a counter weight.

 Get all that want them to send a deposit. Let me know what you
 need and I will send a check or cash your choice.

 Paul Lamar


 No rhino yet. I have Industrial metal working on a quote for the raw
 stock
 .090 4130. They do water jet and will take one of your rhino files
maybe.
 I
 will be down there tomorrow to purchase the 1 inch tube for my engine
 mount.

 Ed Carver

 OK Ed. Let us know what they are charging for 1 inch .049 4130 so we
can
 compare
 prices.

 Check with IM and see if they can accept IGES or stp files.

 I can send them to you and you can give them a DVD or thumb drive.

 Paul Lamar



 They will take stp or iges.

 .090 4130 3'x12'=$525 I figured it is a little more than needed to make
 20
 parts.
 They did not stock .050 4130 one inch tube, so I priced what they did
 have;
 .065 x 30 feet=$130

 They do water jet and laser cutting. Contact Terry Hill:
 thill@imsmetals.comHe apparently is the programmer for the lasers.

 I will, as usual, price this stuff elseware, IMS has usually been less
 costly compared to other local vendors. They do discount for larger
 orders,
 and business accounts. Which does'nt include me.

 If the .050 tube is more than sufficient, I will us it for sure.

 Ed Carver

 I would go easy on the quantify of material bought  until we test this
 thing.

 Try .049" perhaps somebody is not reading the list properly.
 Yes the .065" is over kill for the motor mounts  and too heavy.
 I have to leave in a couple of days for a week in Reno so I will
 not get the dwgs done until I get back.

 AC Spruce is not bad on cost.

 Paul Lamar

 I need to make a trip to ac spruce to get epoxy, etc. I'll pick up a
12x24
 piece of 90 thou plate, it's about $30. I can make a prototype out of
 cheap
 stuff from ims.

 Ed Carver

 Great Ed.

 The splined plate is made from  part 675 in this dwg I think but I could
 be wrong.
 You might want to get one and find out. I'll see if I can get one whenI
 come
 back from Reno if you can wait. I think Tracy adds a short cylinder
to act
 as
 a pilot in the eshaft.  I know it is not a stock manual transmission
 clutch
 spline. The 2.85:1 planetary gear set is part number 582 and the sun
gear
 is
 612. Ring gear is 592.


 Paul Lamar



 The 675 center shaft appears to be the only thing that the forward
planet
 can ride on. So without seeing it, the back side of it must have the
female
 splines. The brown part you drew shows the end removed but I am not
sure why
 sense I have never seen Tracy's unit on the bench.

 Discussion has been made about creating a lighter psru. It would'nt
bother
 me to begin to work on getting this done. If all it is' is getting
lighter
 smaller bearing assemblies for front and rear, then we just need to
create a
 new housing to hold it all.

 Where do I go to get the parts? Is Makco the place? I have a lot of
 transmission shops nearby, that is why it only cost me $75 to rebuild
my MPV
 Ford transmission clutch basket assembly. I have a 6 pinion planet
set saved
 on my ebay page. I just don't know about the rest of it.

 Ed Carver


Here's some ebay items for the center shaft:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-4R100-SHAFT-CENTER-USED-NO-TIP-/400241251377?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d303cd431



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E4OD-4R100-Heavy-Duty-Center-Support-/120700943010?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c1a563aa2



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E40D-4R100-UPDATED-BEARING-TYPE-CENTER-SUPPORT-KIT-NEW-/330546282796?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf618012c


Ed Carver


Hi Ed;
There are several versions of that C6/E4OD/4R100 center shaft.
At least 1 version has a center pilot extension on the splined end.

The ones I have seen have a large bored cavity in the non-splined end
(red in the image)
I don't believe there is enough material to add a sun gear,
although I have not checked the specific sun gear part you are considering.

I'm guessing Tracy has his shafts custom made with the correct spline.

Cheers
Cary

Not custom made. Some part from some automatic.

Paul Lamar

I was wondering?since the rotary power pulses are so tame, that a drive system needs no damping of the rotary's torque pulses, then the gear chatter must come from a different source?.like anywhere else in the drivetrain.  However, even with the existing damping system in Tracy's system, there is gear chatter.  Therefore, the current damping system is entirely superfluous:  not needed to damp engine pulses, and ineffectual against gear chatter!  It is my understanding that gear chatter can be dealt with in planetary systems by "tightening up" the system [larger gears, closer tolerances, stiffer metals etc].  So it would seem that any new damper would be no more effective that the old one against gear chatter.

Even though propellers have fundamental frequency of vibration, as does the prop shaft, as well as planetary gears, and fairly large occasional torque shocks through the driveline during trailing throttle/free-wheeling scenarios, like coming in for a landing only seemsto generate "chatter", then a proper approach to addressing the remaining concerns with Tracy's PSRU should only be limited to beefing up the 'flex' plate JUST to withstand gyroscopic forces, and also tightening up the planetary gears to avoid chatter.  Rubber dampers seem to be superfluous based on the above arguments.  As Bill O'Reilly sea:  Where am I going wrong?  Thanks.

Gene Kahn

They are tame compared to a four cyclinder but they are still there.
However the e-shaft is very stiff compared to a 4 cyclinder so they
do not cause e-shaft problems like torsional resonance or stress fatigue
cracks common in crankshafts.

Gear chatter is a wide spread problem in all types of intermittent internal
combustion engines driving a gear box with a prop on the other end.

It is near impossible to eliminate all clearances in the gear train due
to several factors. One factor is the heat effect that causes metal parts
to expand. Another one is wear. Fortunately the chatter RPM is well below
the operating range of the rotary aircraft engines so it is no problem at
all during landing, take off or taxi. The engine goes through the chatter
range so fast it is not noticed on start up. I am getting  to the point Iwish
I did not bring it up in the first place :)

Paul Lamar