Unlike hydrogen gasoline will ignite over a relatively narrow
range of mixtures. 10:1 to about 18:1. The tank environment is
always too rich to ignite the mixture.
Paul Lamar
Brings to mind the TWA 747 loss a number of years ago where government
investigators concluded shorting wires in empty tank ignited jet fuel
vapors
causing explosion. I was skeptical from the start. Seems to me all
747 aircraft that vintage would have been grounded immediately for
inspection.
Al K
My wife Robin worked for TWA in those days as a mechanic. All 747's
were
inspected
for loose or bare wires. Robin, due to her small size, spent many hours
crawling
around in fuel tanks. A nasty job. Nothing was found. It was common
practice to take
off with empty center tank if you did not need it. This reduced the
stress on
the wing spar. That meant thousands of successful
747 take offs were made with empty center tanks. They also did
their damnedest to ignite the mostly empty center tank on an old
747 with out success.
IMHO it was shot down in error by the Navy and covered up by the
Clinton
administration.
Think of the political fall out if they admitted shooting it down
in error.
Heck cars would be blowing up all over the place. Fuel flows
through the pump past the armature and past the brushes.
What they do with a fuel air bomb is first blow up the tank to
distribute
the fuel in the air to roughly the proper mixture and then ignite the
mixture
with a flare. Then you get the really big bang. Forget the movies
of cars and gasoline tank trucks blowing up.
A can of gas will put out a match but don't ask me to demonstrate
:) Do it with a robot.
Paul Lamar
NOT a Match, but a cigarette, Virg
I've seen it done without igniting the fumes (cigarette).
Harold Lunt
If i remember correctly several days before the 747 was shot down
the Palestinians said if we did not stop backing Israel they would
give us something to think about. Steve Hudson
The aircraft destroyed as TWA Flight 800 was reconstructed and is
at the NTSB training facility in Virginia (I don't recall the
exact location, and I have not seen it since shortly after the
reconstruction was accomplished). Although I often (in fact,
usually) have differences with NTSB findings, they appear correct
on this one. I certainly love conspiracy theories as well as the next
guy, but they don't fit in this instance. The physical evidence reveals
an explosion from inside the
center tank.
~ Nick Jilek
Where you involved in the investigation or are you restating what
you read? Using the word "conspiracy" does not apply in this
case. It is an attempt to discredit the people that might disagree
with the official findings.
All the TWA mechanics that inspected all 747's after the 1996
crash disagree with you. No "shorts" were found.Thousands of 747
flights had occurred with empty or near empty center tanks and
none "exploded" except that one. Flying with an empty center tank
was SOP.
It reduced the stress on the wing. No modifications or AD's were
mandated having
anything to do with the center tank fuel system. My wife was a TWA
mechanic at the time.
IMHO the accidental shoot down was covered up by the Clinton
administration
(1993 to 2001). IMHO the truth will come out sooner or later.
I doubt a terrorist shot it down as it was obviously hit by a
radar guided missile and not infra red guided missile. If infra
red it would have hit an engine.
In 1988 a guided missile cruiser (Similar to the one in the
Atlantic at the time of the TWA shoot down.) shot down an
airliner in the Persian Gulf by mistake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Paul Lamar
Paul, I beg to differ on the Persian gulf incident being a "mistake".
The Aircraft was intentionally
targeted by the guided missile cruiser because it appeared to be
on an attack vector to the cruiser, which was at the time,
engaged in multiple surface actions. The aircraft did not respond
to attempts at radio communication, was not squaking transponder code.
CMDR Will C. Rogers acted in the defense of his crew and vessel. The
Iranians intentionally sent the
aircraft, filled with martyrs for the Islamic revolution, into
the hot zone to provoke an international incident. Will C
Rogers was my CO aboard the USS Cushing, DD985, previously, and I
never met a more professional naval officer in my short career
with the military.
C. Smith
I can believe that.
Paul Lamar
The launch and target intercept results of a radar-guided missile
from a USN ship off the coast of the US would be known to literally
hundreds of people (those aboard the vessel, those monitoring the
airspace, those monitoring the exercise, etc). All these people
would need to be be silent, despite media inquiries, etc, in the
wake of the well-publicized loss of hundreds of lives. Very unlikely.
It's hard for anyone who has worked in a large organization and
who has seen how secrets are(n't) kept to believe a plan/coverup of
any kind that involves more than 3-4 well motivated people would remain
unpublicized.
Mark W.
I have heard that scenario before.
When I was in the military dealing with secret projects we were threatened
with treason if we revealed anything to anybody including our own
family. The
guided missile cruisers can shoot down an aircraft out of sight
miles away with the Aegis Combat System. SM-1ER/SM-2ER, an extended
range surface-to-air missile.
As I understand it target drones were launched
about the same time from land for a military exercise off the
Jersey coast. The personal aboard ship may not know what they shot down.
Have you read all of this yet?
http://twa800.com/documents.htm
My wife was a TWA mechanic and she worked at LAX with 200 others.
Some are close friends of ours. They had to inspect several 747
fuel tanks. I am taking what they say above at face value.
I suggest you run a test where a small amount of diesel fuel is in
a sealed atmospheric pressure small tin can and try to ignite it
with a spark. DO NOT pressurizes the can as that could be ignited
by getting the mass air fuel ratio in the correct 10:1 to 20:1
air:fuel dangerous proportions. In general fuel in a tank is
difficult to explode due to an overly rich fuel air ratio as
mentioned above. However do it in a safe place.
Paul Lamar
I might add if a spark in a fuel tank could cause an explosion
cars would be blowing up all over the place as every car in the
world now has a DC motor fuel pump with arcing brushes inside the
tank itself. Take a close look at this picture. The fuel passes
through the pump motor no less.
Paul Lamar
DO NOT test a suspect pump by removing it and connecting to a battery. When
you remove it you introduce the oxygen atoms required for combustion. A few
mechanics have been killed or lost a hand in demonstration of the effect. If
compelled to test, submerge in solvent to keep the air out.
Dale Davies
I guess I am a lucky dog to be still alive :)
Don't try this at home. I am a professional :)
Paul Lamar
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