Subject: PSRU
From: rotaryeng
Date: 5/20/2012, 6:34 PM
To: AAAA Put this in the To box 



 Any progress on the simple PSRU? I have a neighbor that is a
 retired  millwright, and he has a 12" metal lathe in his basement.
 He has been  building mini steam engines in his basement for a while-
 a steam powered  mini ferris wheel, locomotive, etc.

  Last I remember you were discussing using the ceramic bearings-
 and were  trying to get them from China. If I can get an idea of
 the internal parts  and where to get them, I can try to make one.

  Have we made any progress lately?

  Kevin Alderman

  It will be awhile. We had a ceramic bearing supplier picked out
 but there was some  evidence he was less than reliable. We are
 attempting to finding another source.

  Paul Lamar

 I assume the heart is a Ford planetary, but where does the splined shaft
 come from? Do we have to machine the splines on a shaft?

 Kevin Alderman

 It must be welded up from a  manual transmission, one inch diameter,
 input shaft or
 Ford auto tranny splined part. Tracy uses the auto tranny part.

 Paul Lamar

 OK, I guess I need to go get a used E4OD and tear it apart and see what's
 inside.
 Sounds like fun!

 Kevin Alderman

 No need. New parts are cheap.

 http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/

 I have ordered from them and I think Tracy also buys from them.

 Here is an outfit on the west coast.
 http://www.slauson.com/

 We are in the process of ordering the bearings in china now.

 The smart thing to do is let us build one and see if it works first :)

 Paul Lamar
 \--------------------------------------------------

 You can order thin section steel bearings from mcmaster carr
 but steel thin section bearings are limited rpm wise.
 we are using the 4 inch size.

 This is why we are trying to buy ceramic thin section bearings.
 Cost is the reason for buying them in china.

 Paul Lamar


 I just noticed the NOTE:. The max RPM is with grease as a lubricant. High
 RPM
 would heat the grease due to the internal friction in the viscous
 material.
 How will lubricating with oil affect the RPM rating?

 Dale Davies

 Perhaps a bit higher but no way is steel going to live long enough with
 grease or oil.

 Here is the specs on Shanghi Lilly thin section ceramic bearings.
 The success of this design depends on the high rpm capability of ceramic
 bearings.

 Paul Lamar

 Paul,  I was looking at the attachments and it appears that the 4"
 standard  all stainless construction thin section bearing is rated at
 4800
 RPM (grease)  and 5700 RPM (oil).  The propshaft would be turning 7500
 RPM/
 2,85 or 2631 RPM, well in range of a 5700 RPM bearing. It would seem that
 using silicon nitride balls in the bearing for an 8000 RPM rating  would
 be
 overkill.  I understand that the input shaft might be turning 7500 RPM but
 with a much smaller diameter where the speed ratings are much higher. It
 would seem that a standard size bearing with C3 clearance would be
 appropriate on the input shaft.

 george grimes



 The Shanghi Lilly are ceramic balls.

 What manufacture was that? Most all steel thin section bearings that size
 are limited
 to below 1000 rpm.

 Paul Lamar

 Paul,   I was looking at the attachments on the 8:51 am posting.  One
 chart was 4800/5700  and the other chart ranged from 8500 to 15000 RPM
 for
 the same size. It would seem either type could be used.

 george

 Those RPM numbers are for the silicon nitride balls not steel balls.
 The last attached jpg shows a steel ball bearing that comes close.
 The penalty is a smaller shaft and a much larger housing.
 The shaft strength goes up with cube or the fourth power of the diameter.

 Paul Lamar

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 This company in general does not post the RPM.

 Paul Lamar

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 This one might be worth a try to validate the concept as Milo has
 suggested.
 The cost makes it unattractive.

 Paul Lamar


 ==========================================================================
 Paul, will this do the job? Milo


     Buy online VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim
 Ball Bearings
      VXB Home  Thin Section Bearings

     VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim Ball Bearings

       Quantity in Basket: None
     Part Number: Kit13153
     Our Low Price: $179.00
     Shipping Weight: 0.10 pounds
 ========================================================================
 No I don't think so there is no RPM specified.

 It would only last a few hours.

 Paul


I spent weeks sorting the bearing issues out. Contacted all of my local
suppliers, and most of the 50 state online houses. Nearly all of them did
not return my query. I have been visiting bearing houses for 30 years, this
time they stumped me.

Plus, the size we need is actually 6821, not 6820. And, 4x5x 1/2 was
available for $500 each in silicon nitride with only 4 available
nationwide.

We want this size:
105x130x13mm, this size is listed as 6821. You must specify silicon nitride
balls when you request a quote.

 Anyone can buy the steel ball version of any of the above sizes for about
$20 each on ebay. But you cannot get the 6821 in this country, especially
with the ceramic balls.

We are the highest taxed nation in the world folks, that is why they are
only available in China. No investor would be dumb enough to dump half
million dollars into the newest bearing manufacturing equipment only to
watch ameropean or european governments stripe the profit potential away.

I am currently tooled up to make the prototype. I don't have time this next
4 months or so to continue the process.

Ed Carver

We can make minor changes in the size using sleeves. So if we can find
100x125 in
ceramic that is a more common size. 100 is 3.397 while 105 is 4.133.

I am tempted to spend the big bucks on this Amazon  one just to try a
steel unit
rated at 4400 RPM but only after Henry tries ordering ceramic bearings
from his
Chinese supplier.

Paul Lamar



Earlier this year I asked this seller if he could get the bearings in this
listing with ceramic balls, he said no. If you want to test steel balls,
here is a set. Just offer him $40 for the pair.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6820-2RS-RS-bearings-Ball-Bearing-6820RS-100X125X13-/250875886467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a695e3b83

  I have all of the sleeve material for our 5 inch ID alum tube. Plus the
sleeve material for spacing the bearings on the prop shaft.
Also the tube end plates to hold the bearings and seals that I cut from 6"
6061 bar.

The only bearing I have not decided on is the large pilot bearing for the
planet gear end of the 4130 input shaft. I have all of the steel, to make
it, just need to sort the issue.

The damper assembly is ready to weld up when we decide how thick to make it.

I have knocked the shafts out of the two sizes of planet sets (2.85 and
3.17) to determine the precise size reams needed to machine the bores for
them in the integral prop shaft. The reams need to be sharpened down a few
thou for the purpose.

Too busy to handle it now, so back to work..

Ed Carver





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