Subject: PSRU
From: rotaryeng
Date: 5/20/2012, 6:41 PM
To: AAAA Put this in the To box


 Any progress on the simple PSRU? I have a neighbor that is a
   retired  millwright, and he has a 12" metal lathe in his basement.
   He has been  building mini steam engines in his basement for a
 while-  a steam powered  mini ferris wheel, locomotive, etc.

    Last I remember you were discussing using the ceramic bearings-
   and were  trying to get them from China. If I can get an idea of
   the internal parts  and where to get them, I can try to make one.

    Have we made any progress lately?

    Kevin Alderman

    It will be awhile. We had a ceramic bearing supplier picked out
   but there was some  evidence he was less than reliable. We are
   attempting to finding another source.

    Paul Lamar

   I assume the heart is a Ford planetary, but where does the splined
 shaft  come from? Do we have to machine the splines on a shaft?

   Kevin Alderman

   It must be welded up from a  manual transmission, one inch
 diameter,  input shaft or  Ford auto tranny splined part. Tracy uses
 the auto tranny part.

   Paul Lamar

   OK, I guess I need to go get a used E4OD and tear it apart and see
 what's  inside.  Sounds like fun!

   Kevin Alderman

   No need. New parts are cheap.

   http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/

   I have ordered from them and I think Tracy also buys from them.

   Here is an outfit on the west coast.
   http://www.slauson.com/

   We are in the process of ordering the bearings in china now.

   The smart thing to do is let us build one and see if it works
 first :)

   Paul Lamar
   \--------------------------------------------------

   You can order thin section steel bearings from mcmaster carr
   but steel thin section bearings are limited rpm wise.
   we are using the 4 inch size.

   This is why we are trying to buy ceramic thin section bearings.
   Cost is the reason for buying them in china.

   Paul Lamar

   I just noticed the NOTE:. The max RPM is with grease as a
 lubricant. High  RPM  would heat the grease due to the internal
 friction in the viscous  material.  How will lubricating with oil
 affect the RPM rating?

   Dale Davies

   Perhaps a bit higher but no way is steel going to live long enough
 with  grease or oil.

   Here is the specs on Shanghi Lilly thin section ceramic bearings.
   The success of this design depends on the high rpm capability of ceramic
   bearings.

   Paul Lamar

   Paul,  I was looking at the attachments and it appears that the 4"
   standard  all stainless construction thin section bearing is rated
 at  4800  RPM (grease)  and 5700 RPM (oil).  The propshaft would be
 turning 7500  RPM/  2,85 or 2631 RPM, well in range of a 5700 RPM
 bearing. It would seem that  using silicon nitride balls in the
 bearing for an 8000 RPM rating  would  be  overkill.  I understand
 that the input shaft might be turning 7500 RPM but  with a much
 smaller diameter where the speed ratings are much higher. It  would
 seem that a standard size bearing with C3 clearance would be
  appropriate on the input shaft.

   george grimes

   The Shanghi Lilly are ceramic balls.

   What manufacture was that? Most all steel thin section bearings
 that size  are limited  to below 1000 rpm.

   Paul Lamar

   Paul,   I was looking at the attachments on the 8:51 am posting.  One
   chart was 4800/5700  and the other chart ranged from 8500 to 15000
 RPM  for  the same size. It would seem either type could be used.

   george

   Those RPM numbers are for the silicon nitride balls not steel
 balls.  The last attached jpg shows a steel ball bearing that comes close.
   The penalty is a smaller shaft and a much larger housing.
   The shaft strength goes up with cube or the fourth power of the diameter.

   Paul Lamar

   ------------------------------------------------------------------------

   This company in general does not post the RPM.

   Paul Lamar

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   This one might be worth a try to validate the concept as Milo has
   suggested.
   The cost makes it unattractive.

   Paul Lamar

  ==========================================================================
   Paul, will this do the job? Milo

       Buy online VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim
  Ball Bearings
        VXB Home  Thin Section Bearings

       VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim Ball Bearings

         Quantity in Basket: None
       Part Number: Kit13153
       Our Low Price: $179.00
       Shipping Weight: 0.10 pounds
  ========================================================================
  No I don't think so there is no RPM specified.

  It would only last a few hours.

  Paul

 I spent weeks sorting the bearing issues out. Contacted all of my local
 suppliers, and most of the 50 state online houses. Nearly all of
 them did not return my query. I have been visiting bearing houses
 for 30 years, this time they stumped me.

 Plus, the size we need is actually 6821, not 6820. And, 4x5x 1/2 was
 available for $500 each in silicon nitride with only 4 available nationwide.

 We want this size:
 105x130x13mm, this size is listed as 6821. You must specify silicon nitride
 balls when you request a quote.

  Anyone can buy the steel ball version of any of the above sizes for
 about $20 each on ebay. But you cannot get the 6821 in this country,
 especially with the ceramic balls.

 We are the highest taxed nation in the world folks, that is why they
 are only available in China. No investor would be dumb enough to
 dump half million dollars into the newest bearing manufacturing
 equipment only to watch ameropean or european governments stripe the
 profit potential away.

 I am currently tooled up to make the prototype. I don't have time
 this next 4 months or so to continue the process.

 Ed Carver

 We can make minor changes in the size using sleeves. So if we can
 find 100x125 in ceramic that is a more common size. 100 is 3.397
 while 105 is 4.133.

 I am tempted to spend the big bucks on this Amazon  one just to try
 a steel unit rated at 4400 RPM but only after Henry tries ordering
 ceramic bearings from his Chinese supplier.

 Paul Lamar



 OOPS; 100/25.4 = 3.937"

Dale Davies

Right! thanks dale for catching that.

Paul Lamar
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