Subject: PSRU
From: rotaryeng
Date: 5/21/2012, 11:00 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:;


 Any progress on the simple PSRU? I have a neighbor that is a
    retired  millwright, and he has a 12" metal lathe in his basement.
    He has been  building mini steam engines in his basement for a
   while-  a steam powered  mini ferris wheel, locomotive, etc.

     Last I remember you were discussing using the ceramic bearings-
    and were  trying to get them from China. If I can get an idea of
    the internal parts  and where to get them, I can try to make one.

     Have we made any progress lately?

     Kevin Alderman

     It will be awhile. We had a ceramic bearing supplier picked out
    but there was some  evidence he was less than reliable. We are
    attempting to finding another source.

     Paul Lamar

    I assume the heart is a Ford planetary, but where does the splined
   shaft  come from? Do we have to machine the splines on a shaft?

    Kevin Alderman

    It must be welded up from a  manual transmission, one inch
   diameter,  input shaft or  Ford auto tranny splined part. Tracy
 uses  the auto tranny part.

    Paul Lamar

    OK, I guess I need to go get a used E4OD and tear it apart and see
   what's  inside.  Sounds like fun!

    Kevin Alderman

    No need. New parts are cheap.

    http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/

    I have ordered from them and I think Tracy also buys from them.

    Here is an outfit on the west coast.
    http://www.slauson.com/

    We are in the process of ordering the bearings in china now.

    The smart thing to do is let us build one and see if it works
   first :)

    Paul Lamar
    \--------------------------------------------------

    You can order thin section steel bearings from mcmaster carr
    but steel thin section bearings are limited rpm wise.
    we are using the 4 inch size.

    This is why we are trying to buy ceramic thin section bearings.
    Cost is the reason for buying them in china.

    Paul Lamar

    I just noticed the NOTE:. The max RPM is with grease as a
   lubricant. High  RPM  would heat the grease due to the internal
   friction in the viscous material.  How will lubricating with oil
   affect the RPM rating?

    Dale Davies

    Perhaps a bit higher but no way is steel going to live long enough
   with  grease or oil.

    Here is the specs on Shanghi Lilly thin section ceramic bearings.
    The success of this design depends on the high rpm capability of ceramic
    bearings.

    Paul Lamar

    Paul,  I was looking at the attachments and it appears that the 4"
    standard  all stainless construction thin section bearing is rated
   at 4800 RPM (grease)  and 5700 RPM (oil).  The propshaft would be
   turning 7500 RPM/ 2,85 or 2631 RPM, well in range of a 5700 RPM
   bearing. It would seem that using silicon nitride balls in the
   bearing for an 8000 RPM rating  would be overkill.  I understand
   that the input shaft might be turning 7500 RPM but with a much
   smaller diameter where the speed ratings are much higher. It would
   seem that a standard size bearing with C3 clearance would be
   appropriate on the input shaft.

   george grimes

   The Shanghi Lilly are ceramic balls.

   What manufacture was that? Most all steel thin section bearings
   that size are limited to below 1000 rpm.

   Paul Lamar

   Paul,   I was looking at the attachments on the 8:51 am posting.
   One chart was 4800/5700  and the other chart ranged from 8500 to
   15000 RPM for the same size. It would seem either type could be used.

   george

   Those RPM numbers are for the silicon nitride balls not steel
 balls.  The last attached jpg shows a steel ball bearing that comes close.
   The penalty is a smaller shaft and a much larger housing.
   The shaft strength goes up with cube or the fourth power of the diameter.

   Paul Lamar

   ------------------------------------------------------------------------

   This company in general does not post the RPM.

   Paul Lamar

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   This one might be worth a try to validate the concept as Milo has
   suggested.
   The cost makes it unattractive.

   Paul Lamar

   ==========================================================================
   Paul, will this do the job? Milo

        Buy online VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open
 Slim  Ball Bearings        VXB Home  Thin Section Bearings

        VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim Ball Bearings

          Quantity in Basket: None
        Part Number: Kit13153
        Our Low Price: $179.00
        Shipping Weight: 0.10 pounds
   ========================================================================
   No I don't think so there is no RPM specified.

   It would only last a few hours.

   Paul

   Years ago I was rebuilding Allison powershift transmissions for off
  highway
  equipment. One rebuild I noticed a new bearing to repalce one I had
 used numerous times. The part number on the box was different, but
 the bearing had the same numbers etched on it. I asked the manager
 who was also a mechanic. He did a bunch of checking as the price was
 almost double and found out there is a tolerance on bearings. The
 manufacturer part number is the same as the dimensions are identical,
  but the closer tolerance goes in a different box with a
 corresponding cost change.  Two bearings listed in previous posts;
   1: RBC  KD040 CPO     List $389
   2:      VD040 CPO     List $179  Question is, what would the
 difference be considering the dimensions are the same? Just the
 change in the first letter of the part number K or V. If normal
 economics apply, the more expensive bearing would be of better quality.

  Dale Davies

 Without looking it up again, I believe bearings have what is call an
 ABEC rating. ABEC-7 appears to be the common spec for super
 precision bearings.

 Ed Carver

 Group,

 The ABEC scale is an industry accepted standard for the tolerances
 of a ball bearing. It was developed by the Annular Bearing
 Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers
 Association (ABMA). There are five classes from largest to smallest
 tolerances: 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. The higher ABEC classes provide
 better precision, efficiency,[citation needed] and greater speed
 capabilities, but do not necessarily make the components spin
 faster.[1] The ABEC rating does not specify many other critical
 factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball
 precision or quality/type of steel used.

 The bearing material is not specified in the ABEC grades. Bearings
 not conforming to at least ABEC 1 can not be classified as precision
 bearings as their tolerances are too loose.

 The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision
 about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings
 are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments or
 surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority
 of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates,
  skateboards, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC
 rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications
 requiring very high RPM and smooth operation.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC

 Rotor Head

 Ok, so to help get my grey matter wrapped around this tid bit of information;
the VD040 CPO bearing. Does the 4 in the 040 designate it as an ISO class
4/ABEC 7 rearing? How does the KD040 CPO bearing differ?

Dale Davies

You got me Dale.

Paul Lamar

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