OK we've had a few discussions on alternative fuels now, so its
time for a round-up. LPG with diesel 33/66% gives more power and
less particulate emissions and is rebatable at tax time(in Aus). Weight
restrictive on A/C. A good power increase for lower powered diesels
without up sizing cubes and I'm looking at it for my purposes. But
what Hasn't been clarified is the effect of H2O on the combustion
reaction, we've had to and fro's blah blah but if it will allow
increases in range by allowing LOP due to better combustion in
rotaries why should we not investigate it as another advantage of
the no valve arrangement. Paul has been obvious in his opposition
to H2Oas a pure fuel supply, but what as a supplement. Weight and range
benefit balanced. If I was to Fly from here to Perth, 2500+ Kms
could I do it with 1 or 2 stops. BTW at our local fuel station we
can now buy 100 octane unleaded 10% ethanol, it is supplied for the
speedway nearby.
I was watching some nascar and at the bottom of the screen they
were proclaiming ethanol as the first anti-nock/detonation,
NOW IT'S BACK. could those more enlightened "please explain". Oh could
you also elaborate on the weight/volume/calorific/octane theory
for complete clarity please. a/f is measured weight for weight not
volume of fuel/weight (of air). I'm sure someone Knows the answer,
if not we can work it out by debate. I do have Chemistry knowledge
and need the scientific figures. yours hopefully Graeme Riley
In addition to half the range and all the other H2O drawbacks it is
half the power. That is a direct result of it gaseous form. It is
hard the get enough H2O gas in the combustion chamber to generate
the power the rotary is capable of on ordinary gasoline. It is a
fundamentally impossible.
Now if you wish to use liquid hydrogen don't expect me to be within
half a mile :)
To even discuss alternatives to gasoline is to distract attention
from the real issue. There is plenty of gasoline in the world and
there is no real problem burning it. It is only necessary to drill
for it. The gasoline and CO2 controversy was manufactured by
Democrat liars seeking absolute political power.
Paul Lamar
I'm right there with you Paul. The question I'm really trying to
ask is will small amounts of Hydrogen ( as would be supplied by an
onboard generator) added to the combustion mixture Produce any
significant economy returns. I'm not suggesting replacing gasoline,
we have been down that road.What I am wondering is if combustion
supplementation with H2 and O wil 1/ improve combustion and 2/
increase range by virtue of milage increase minus extra weight
penalty. Will enrichment have any known benefit to the combustion
efficiency. H2 fuel alone is definately a catalyst for disaster ,Oh
the Humanity,what I want to know is wether low level continuous
production for combustion completeness will enhance the range of a
gasoline powered engine. That is can I produce more efficient power
using the combination than by using gasoline alone, a range
extender if you will. I have no intention of storing H2 in an
aircraft, that lesson has been learnt, and I have no desire to
replicate the Hindenberg on any scale.
Graeme Riley
I don't know but I doubt it. I have no desire to build one and
test it.
Paul Lamar
A small amount of propane or CNG added to the intake of a diesel engine
produces a large reduction in emissions and a power increase. A noticable
reduction of exhaust smoke readily visible. It seems to act like a
catalyst in the combustion. The H2+O generator "may" work in a
similar manner on gasoline engines. I am scepticle, but technology
is bringing some neat stuff out. Time will tell.
Dale Davies
Wow those figures are amazing Jean, thanks for supplying them, shame
the vid didn't work, It would be interesting to see. How much gas
does it supply litres/minute. what is the weight of your system? was
the computer interfacing a big issue? any more details would be most
welcome
Thank you also Dale, I am thinking that ethanol is less dense than
gasoline hence the higher fuel burn, to improve endurance extra fuel
could be carried due to its light weight, but tank size will be
limiting. Do you think raising compression will allow gasoline burn
rates?. Maybe Dave could have used ethanol at Reno, yeeeer haah,
special racin' juice!!! High power with charge cooling.
-- Graeme Riley
Hi Graeme,
I think you would loose out on the weight to volume deal especially with
regard to power. That said, I worked with a fellow that built a Dodge 318 with
13:1 CR to run exclusively propane; LPG. He got the same fuel economy with
this set up as he did stock on gasoline. UPS bought some delivery vans a few
years ago with 4.3L Chev V6 engines with turbo charging to run on CNG. I do
not know how that worked out. The turbo charge would add to the effective
compression of the engine which would help the economy with minimal
modifications to the engine assembly.
I think a rotary with 10:1 CR and turbo charge running LPG could work. One
advantage to LPG is that the fuel is under lower pressure (200-250) than CNG.
Thus the tanks are considerably lighter. A few/bunch of 20# tanks connected
could be fit into an airframe. Gasoline does give the best bang for the buck.
We are in a world now though that is requiring better economy and emissions.
Jean MAY have something with the H2 generator as a supplement which MAY act
as a catalyst for the gasoline combustion process similar to how LPG or CNG
does for diesel combustion.
The people selling mileage enhancers give the hype and the people that are
refuting the process usually give example of ALL the previous scams. There MAY
be some things coming on the market now that do work. NOTE: I am not endorsing
any product here, only making observations. That stated, it can not hurt if
some individuals felt like testing something, go for it. Try it on a dyno or
run stand with a propeller and document without said device and with, so there
is some semblance of scientific evidence to make a valid comparison.
I am wondering how a rotary would work with a higher CR and running on JET A.
Make diesel combustion chambers similar to CAT pre-cups or the old Case cups
that the injection sprayed across the cylinder into the pre-cup. In both of
these the initial burn started/happened in the pre-cup and than a blast of
flame came roaring out into the main cylinder. The cat system sprayed directly
into the pre-cup. After they went to electric starters, they put glow plugs
into the pre-cup. A ceramic glow plug in the combustion chamber the screws
into the leading spark plug hole might work. You could use a modern common
rail diesel injaction from a 4 cylinder with 2 injectors in each combustion
chamber. 11:1 or 12:1 CR with grooves in the face of an otherwise flat rotor
face and turbocharged for economy and power. One LPG tank for a catalyst would
then suffice. Add in a power recovery turbine and the efficiency could be
really good.
Dale Davies
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