Any progress on the simple PSRU? I have a neighbor that is a
retired millwright, and he has a 12" metal lathe in his
basement. He has been building mini steam engines in his
basement for a while- a steam powered mini ferris wheel,
locomotive, etc.
Last I remember you were discussing using the ceramic bearings-
and were trying to get them from China. If I can get an idea of
the internal parts and where to get them, I can try to make one.
Have we made any progress lately?
Kevin Alderman
It will be awhile. We had a ceramic bearing supplier picked out
but there was some evidence he was less than reliable. We are
attempting to finding another source.
Paul Lamar
I assume the heart is a Ford planetary, but where does the
splined shaft come from? Do we have to machine the splines on a shaft?
Kevin Alderman
It must be welded up from a manual transmission, one inch
diameter, input shaft or Ford auto tranny splined part. Tracy
uses the auto tranny part.
Paul Lamar
OK, I guess I need to go get a used E4OD and tear it apart and
see what's inside. Sounds like fun!
Kevin Alderman
No need. New parts are cheap.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/
I have ordered from them and I think Tracy also buys from them.
Here is an outfit on the west coast.
http://www.slauson.com/
We are in the process of ordering the bearings in china now.
The smart thing to do is let us build one and see if it works
first :)
Paul Lamar
\--------------------------------------------------
You can order thin section steel bearings from mcmaster carr
but steel thin section bearings are limited rpm wise.
we are using the 4 inch size.
This is why we are trying to buy ceramic thin section bearings.
Cost is the reason for buying them in china.
Paul Lamar
cheaper
I just noticed the NOTE:. The max RPM is with grease as a
lubricant. High RPM would heat the grease due to the internal
friction in the viscous material. How will lubricating with oil
affect the RPM rating?
Dale Davies
Perhaps a bit higher but no way is steel going to live long
enough with grease or oil.
Here is the specs on Shanghi Lilly thin section ceramic bearings.
The success of this design depends on the high rpm capability of
ceramic bearings.
Paul Lamar
Paul, I was looking at the attachments and it appears that the
4" standard all stainless construction thin section bearing is rated
at 4800 RPM (grease) and 5700 RPM (oil). The propshaft would be
turning 7500 RPM/ 2,85 or 2631 RPM, well in range of a 5700 RPM
bearing. It would seem that using silicon nitride balls in the
bearing for an 8000 RPM rating would be overkill. I understand
that the input shaft might be turning 7500 RPM but with a much
smaller diameter where the speed ratings are much higher. It would
seem that a standard size bearing with C3 clearance would be
appropriate on the input shaft.
george grimes
The Shanghi Lilly are ceramic balls.
What manufacture was that? Most all steel thin section bearings
that size are limited to below 1000 rpm.
Paul Lamar
Paul, I was looking at the attachments on the 8:51 am posting.
One chart was 4800/5700 and the other chart ranged from 8500 to
15000 RPM for the same size. It would seem either type could be used.
george
Those RPM numbers are for the silicon nitride balls not steel
balls. The last attached jpg shows a steel ball bearing that
comes close. The penalty is a smaller shaft and a much larger housing.
The shaft strength goes up with cube or the fourth power of the diameter.
Paul Lamar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This company in general does not post the RPM.
Paul Lamar
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This one might be worth a try to validate the concept as Milo has
suggested.
The cost makes it unattractive.
Paul Lamar
==========================================================================
Paul, will this do the job? Milo
Buy online VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open
Slim Ball Bearings VXB Home Thin Section Bearings
VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim Ball
Bearings
Quantity in Basket: None
Part Number: Kit13153
Our Low Price: $179.00
Shipping Weight: 0.10 pounds
========================================================================
No I don't think so there is no RPM specified.
It would only last a few hours.
Paul
Years ago I was rebuilding Allison powershift transmissions for
off highway equipment. One rebuild I noticed a new bearing to
repalce one I had used numerous times. The part number on the box
was different, but the bearing had the same numbers etched on it. I
asked the manager who was also a mechanic. He did a bunch of
checking as the price was almost double and found out there is a
tolerance on bearings. The manufacturer part number is the same as
the dimensions are identical, but the closer tolerance goes in a
different box with a corresponding cost change. Two bearings
listed in previous posts;
1: RBC KD040 CPO List $389
2: VD040 CPO List $179 Question is, what would the
difference be considering the dimensions are the same? Just the
change in the first letter of the part number K or V. If normal
economics apply, the more expensive bearing would be of better quality.
Dale Davies
Without looking it up again, I believe bearings have what is call
an ABEC rating. ABEC-7 appears to be the common spec for super
precision bearings.
Ed Carver
Group,
The ABEC scale is an industry accepted standard for the tolerances
of a ball bearing. It was developed by the Annular Bearing
Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers
Association (ABMA). There are five classes from largest to smallest
tolerances: 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. The higher ABEC classes provide
better precision, efficiency,[citation needed] and greater speed
capabilities, but do not necessarily make the components spin
faster.[1] The ABEC rating does not specify many other critical
factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball
precision or quality/type of steel used.
The bearing material is not specified in the ABEC grades. Bearings
not conforming to at least ABEC 1 can not be classified as
precision bearings as their tolerances are too loose.
The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision
about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings
are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments
or surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority
of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates,
skateboards, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC
rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications
requiring very high RPM and smooth operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC
Rotor Head
Ok, so to help get my grey matter wrapped around this tid bit of
information;
the VD040 CPO bearing. Does the 4 in the 040 designate it as an
ISO class 4/ABEC 7 rearing? How does the KD040 CPO bearing differ?
Dale Davies
You got me Dale.
Paul Lamar
If the same bearing is cheaper in China than the U.S. then by all
means purchase from China, If the Chinese manufactured bearing is
cheaper than the U.S. made unit (if there is such a thing) Then not
only are you risking your ass and those who may fly with you, for a
couple of hundred $, your also sacrificing U.S. jobs, hurting the U.S.
economy, and, gulp, being a cheapskate, that is why Aussie
manufacturing has passed the S bend. Blundstone work boots
determined that prior to moving manufacturing to India. At least
they are a member of the Commonwealth and friends of ours. (Except
on the cricket field, then we want to crush them, and vice versa).
A man approaches a beautiful young woman and asks " Will you sleep
with me for $1million" the woman briefly pauses and replies "Yes,
O.K.". The man then asks "Will you sleep with me for $20" The woman
vigorously replies "What kind of woman do you think I am?" the man
answers "We have already determined that, now we're just haggling
over the price ! " Food for thought do you not think. I do not
intend to offend. Graeme Riley
I had to step in here-
1. Continental Aircraft Engines (TCM) is now a Chinese company- so
by this logic I should consider their parts now inferior.
2. Almost all of our computer parts worldwide are made in China- so why
have our computers not stopped working?
3. Cessna makes its new 162 in China, so is it not airworthy?
4. GM has 15 plants in China and as per a statement from the
President of Government Motors "70% of our cars are now made in
locations other than in the US". He made this statement at a Chinese
event that marked GMs opening of a major R&D unit in China, to -his
words- replace the R&D department in the US.
5. Hawker Beechcraft- now under bankruptcy protection- has been actively
pursuing a manufacturing relationship with the Chinese for years-
the fact that they hadn't been able to reach an agreement is why
they went under according to a statement by their CEO. He said that
"an agreement with the Chinese to begin manufacturing in China was
mandatory if Hawker was to survive". So, do we not fly in a Hawker anymore?
The issue of items being made in China are not always one of quality-
the Ipad is made in Taiwan, China, and about everywhere in the
world except here. Did that keep millions from buying them? Does
that make them not work?
The problem is the high taxes here and the high cost of labor here.
Why do you think the Chinese are building the bridges in California?
Cessna is making the planes in China, GM is building cars in China,
etc. etc. Economics 101.
I have no issues with a bearing made in China, if it meets quality
standards. However, my American Made Continental blew up at 1700
hours and is now going off to be melted down. But for $54,000 I can
buy a replacement. And, do not forget our rotaries are not made
here either. I have 3 of them now.
Kevin Alderman
The reason it is so cheap to manufacture in China is that they have NO
standards of their own. No health, driving, pollution, etc.. They are also
keeping their money valued low to entice product to be cheaper there. You
think you have high taxes in the US, try Canada. We are getting better. The
previous Liberal government bowed to the manufacturing sector to keep our $
low so the manufacturers primarily in Ontario could make a killing on the $
exchange rate. We have a (N)DP leader now complaining that Alberta's
prosperity is killing manufacturing in the east. It is business owners that
built their business relying on a low $ so they could make big bucks on the
exchange. Then the US sued us for dumping product just to undercut the US
manufacturers.
Enough rant. There is some QC/QA issues for product from China. Western
companies that manufacture there institute western QC/QA that has to be met,
the same as if it were built here. The other problem that the arises is that
the people that used to work here are now unemployed or under employed and can
not afford to buy a lot. That contributes to the financial problems here.
Germany has had a similar problem outsourcing to East Germany.
As for the rotaries, they are made in Japan to the best of my knowledge. Just
after WW2, there was a lot of cheap product sent over from Japan that did not
and was not intended to last. The first cars had some issues; rust, poor
heaters. They learned fast and did a lot of market research and then fixed the
problems. My '73 RX3 was twice the car a Vega or Pinto were. The piston
powered cars were the same with equivalent or better fuel economy. I feel
better about and did then about the Japanese ethics than I do about the
Chinese ethics.
Dale Davies
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