Any progress on the simple PSRU? I have a neighbor that is a
retired millwright, and he has a 12" metal lathe in his basement.
He has been building mini steam engines in his basement for a
while- a steam powered mini ferris wheel, locomotive, etc.
Last I remember you were discussing using the ceramic bearings-
and were trying to get them from China. If I can get an idea of
the internal parts and where to get them, I can try to make one.
Have we made any progress lately?
Kevin Alderman
It will be awhile. We had a ceramic bearing supplier picked out
but there was some evidence he was less than reliable. We are
attempting to finding another source.
Paul Lamar
I assume the heart is a Ford planetary, but where does the splined
shaft come from? Do we have to machine the splines on a shaft?
Kevin Alderman
It must be welded up from a manual transmission, one inch
diameter, input shaft or Ford auto tranny splined part. Tracy
uses the auto tranny part.
Paul Lamar
OK, I guess I need to go get a used E4OD and tear it apart and see
what's inside. Sounds like fun!
Kevin Alderman
No need. New parts are cheap.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/
I have ordered from them and I think Tracy also buys from them.
Here is an outfit on the west coast.
http://www.slauson.com/
We are in the process of ordering the bearings in china now.
The smart thing to do is let us build one and see if it works
first :)
Paul Lamar
\--------------------------------------------------
You can order thin section steel bearings from mcmaster carr
but steel thin section bearings are limited rpm wise.
we are using the 4 inch size.
This is why we are trying to buy ceramic thin section bearings.
Cost is the reason for buying them in china.
Paul Lamar
cheaper
I just noticed the NOTE:. The max RPM is with grease as a
lubricant. High RPM would heat the grease due to the internal
friction in the viscous material. How will lubricating with oil
affect the RPM rating?
Dale Davies
Perhaps a bit higher but no way is steel going to live long enough
with grease or oil.
Here is the specs on Shanghi Lilly thin section ceramic bearings.
The success of this design depends on the high rpm capability of ceramic
bearings.
Paul Lamar
Paul, I was looking at the attachments and it appears that the 4"
standard all stainless construction thin section bearing is rated
at 4800 RPM (grease) and 5700 RPM (oil). The propshaft would be
turning 7500 RPM/ 2,85 or 2631 RPM, well in range of a 5700 RPM
bearing. It would seem that using silicon nitride balls in the
bearing for an 8000 RPM rating would be overkill. I understand
that the input shaft might be turning 7500 RPM but with a much
smaller diameter where the speed ratings are much higher. It would
seem that a standard size bearing with C3 clearance would be
appropriate on the input shaft.
george grimes
The Shanghi Lilly are ceramic balls.
What manufacture was that? Most all steel thin section bearings
that size are limited to below 1000 rpm.
Paul Lamar
Paul, I was looking at the attachments on the 8:51 am posting.
One chart was 4800/5700 and the other chart ranged from 8500 to
15000 RPM for the same size. It would seem either type could be used.
george
Those RPM numbers are for the silicon nitride balls not steel
balls. The last attached jpg shows a steel ball bearing that comes close.
The penalty is a smaller shaft and a much larger housing.
The shaft strength goes up with cube or the fourth power of the diameter.
Paul Lamar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This company in general does not post the RPM.
Paul Lamar
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This one might be worth a try to validate the concept as Milo has
suggested.
The cost makes it unattractive.
Paul Lamar
==========================================================================
Paul, will this do the job? Milo
Buy online VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open
Slim Ball BearingsVXB Home Thin Section Bearings
VD040CP0 Thin Section Bearing 4"x5"x1/2" inch Open Slim Ball
Bearings
Quantity in Basket: None
Part Number: Kit13153
Our Low Price: $179.00
Shipping Weight: 0.10 pounds
========================================================================
No I don't think so there is no RPM specified.
It would only last a few hours.
Paul
Years ago I was rebuilding Allison powershift transmissions for off
highway
equipment. One rebuild I noticed a new bearing to repalce one I had
used numerous times. The part number on the box was different, but
the bearing had the same numbers etched on it. I asked the manager
who was also a mechanic. He did a bunch of checking as the price was
almost double and found out there is a tolerance on bearings. The
manufacturer part number is the same as the dimensions are identical,
but the closer tolerance goes in a different box with a
corresponding cost change. Two bearings listed in previous posts;
1: RBC KD040 CPO List $389
2: VD040 CPO List $179 Question is, what would the
difference be considering the dimensions are the same? Just the
change in the first letter of the part number K or V. If normal
economics apply, the more expensive bearing would be of better quality.
Dale Davies
Without looking it up again, I believe bearings have what is call an
ABEC rating. ABEC-7 appears to be the common spec for super
precision bearings.
Ed Carver
Group,
The ABEC scale is an industry accepted standard for the tolerances
of a ball bearing. It was developed by the Annular Bearing
Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers
Association (ABMA). There are five classes from largest to smallest
tolerances: 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. The higher ABEC classes provide
better precision, efficiency,[citation needed] and greater speed
capabilities, but do not necessarily make the components spin
faster.[1] The ABEC rating does not specify many other critical
factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball
precision or quality/type of steel used.
The bearing material is not specified in the ABEC grades. Bearings
not conforming to at least ABEC 1 can not be classified as precision
bearings as their tolerances are too loose.
The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision
about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings
are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments or
surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority
of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates,
skateboards, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC
rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications
requiring very high RPM and smooth operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC
Rotor Head
Ok, so to help get my grey matter wrapped around this tid bit of
information;
the VD040 CPO bearing. Does the 4 in the 040 designate it as an ISO class
4/ABEC 7 rearing? How does the KD040 CPO bearing differ?
Dale Davies
You got me Dale.
Paul Lamar
If the same bearing is cheaper in China than the U.S. then by all
means purchase from China, If the Chinese manufactured bearing is
cheaper than the U.S. made unit (if there is such a thing) Then not
only are you risking your ass and those who may fly with you, for a
couple of hundred $, your also sacrificing U.S. jobs, hurting the U.S.
economy, and, gulp, being a cheapskate, that is why Aussie
manufacturing has passed the S bend. Blundstone work boots determined
that prior to moving manufacturing to India. At least they are a
member of the Commonwealth and friends of ours. (Except on the cricket
field, then we want to crush them, and vice versa).
A man approaches a beautiful young woman and asks " Will you sleep
with me for $1million" the woman briefly pauses and replies "Yes,
O.K.". The man then asks "Will you sleep with me for $20" The woman
vigorously replies "What kind of woman do you think I am?" the man
answers "We have already determined that, now we're just haggling over
the price ! "
Food for thought do you not think. I do not intend to offend.
Graeme Riley
I had to step in here-
1. Continental Aircraft Engines (TCM) is now a Chinese company- so by this
logic I should consider their parts now inferior.
2. Almost all of our computer parts worldwide are made in China- so why
have our computers not stopped working?
3. Cessna makes its new 162 in China, so is it not airworthy?
4. GM has 15 plants in China and as per a statement from the President of
Government Motors "70% of our cars are now made in locations other than in
the US". He made this statement at a Chinese event that marked GMs opening
of a major R&D unit in China, to -his words- replace the R&D department in
the US.
5. Hawker Beechcraft- now under bankruptcy protection- has been actively
pursuing a manufacturing relationship with the Chinese for years- the fact
that they hadn't been able to reach an agreement is why they went under
according to a statement by their CEO. He said that "an agreement with the
Chinese to begin manufacturing in China was mandatory if Hawker was to
survive". So, do we not fly in a Hawker anymore?
The issue of items being made in China are not always one of quality- the
Ipad is made in Taiwan, China, and about everywhere in the world except
here. Did that keep millions from buying them? Does that make them not
work?
The problem is the high taxes here and the high cost of labor here. Why do
you think the Chinese are building the bridges in California? Cessna is
making the planes in China, GM is building cars in China, etc. etc.
Economics 101.
I have no issues with a bearing made in China, if it meets quality
standards. However, my American Made Continental blew up at 1700 hours and
is now going off to be melted down. But for $54,000 I can buy a
replacement. And, do not forget our rotaries are not made here either. I
have 3 of them now.
Kevin Alderman
The current leftist regime controlling the U.S. and most of the rest of the
western world can be compared to the 1960s cartoon MR. MAGOO, wherein you
have an extremely nearsighted decrepit old man being lead around by a
Chinese guy named Charlie who is continually saving Magoo's ass.
In the U.S. a mass experiment began when the American Collegiate Ubermensch
took the sands of ontology and rearranged it all within our popular culture
and education sys. The young Magoo's of the 60s had no idea where the newly
rearranged elements of ontology would lead them, nor were they aware of the
change, as a result, China has become the manufacturing source for nearly
everything. And all because of the implicit near sightedness of the driving
philosophies of the day.
Consequently, the road to serfdom has broadened to the extent that now
~50%~ of our population is happily on the government dole, and most of them
have no compunction about using their welfare debit card to buy ice cream
and cake.
So there ya go, China to the rescue. And give em credit, soviet
totalitarianism drove their own economy into the ground, the Chicoms on the
other hand, looked carefully at Hong Kong and cried out in their newly
enlightened state, 'AH SO' O' great ones" then thanked the British for
renting the spot from them, and thereafter duplicated within the mainland
what had made HK so successful.
Whatayado now? In my case, I have relatives in the Filipines, Some of whom
work in HK and are members of the vast OFW (overseas Filipino workers). I
suspect I will be making better acquaintance with the ones in HK as they
can send stuff to the U.S. cheaply.
Don't work too hard right? In my case, I'm like the guy who built the first
Wright Bros. engine. Just get me the raw materials and we'll get the show
on the road with minimal investment.
Sadly:( I can't make bearings, so anyone who wants to add the bearings
to the pile of materials I have for Paul's new tube shaft prop reduction
unit, and also has time to do the leg work to get the materials machined
for the assembly, I'll gladly put it all in a box and send it to you.
Any takers?
Ed Carver
Would it be feasible to use a plain bearing, pressure-fed from a gear
pump built into the PSRU?
Victor Roberts
Perhaps. Maybe engine oil pressure. Plain bearings usually have one surface
extremely hard. The rotor bearing is about this size. We could hard anodize the
prop shaft and try it. It has the potential to supply high pressure oil to a CS prop.
We will have to work out a thrust bearing.
Paul Lamar
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