Subject: Batteries
From: rotaryeng
Date: 5/30/2012, 12:27 PM
To: AAAA Put this in the To box


  I'm nearing the finish of my phase 1 testing, and am now looking
  for replacement batteries. right now, I am using two of these:
  http://www.power-

 sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/ps_psg_series/12volt/PS-12180_11_Feb_21.pdf
  .
  They are on separate contact-ors, so I can use either or both when
  flying. I use both when starting. They are two years old, and today
  when I went flying I noticed that the voltage was getting down to
  11.6 volts. after landing, the voltage was up around
  12.3 volts. Usually I show around 13~13.6 volts when running. I
  always use a float charger specifically designed for these batteries
  when the plane is put away. Usually the float charger shows a slow
  charge, but when I cam back from flying today the charger was
  showing a fast charge, meaning that the batteries were discharged a fair
  amount. Any comments on the suitability of these batteries and
  suggestions on how to test them out for holding a charge or
  otherwise determining their suitability or not for my plane. I have
  a 40 amp Nippondenso alternator, and run an Xcom radio, a terra
  transponder, Dynon D10, Tracys EM2 and EC2, and one fuel pump(at a
  time unless landing or taking off) that draws around 4 and no more
  than 6 amps.

  Thanks,
  Brian Trubee

  The 11.6 V is normal for sealed lead acid battery when not charging.
  Other people are using the same type successfully.
  They need to be charged from time to time when sitting around.
  My guess is every 2 weeks.

  Paul Lamar

  I'm pretty sure that this is a charging issue that just cropped up
  on this last flight- I usually run in the upper 13s voltwise but
  noticed the low voltage while out flying yesterday. My float charger
  will automatically go to float charge unless the batteries are
  discharged when I put the charger on when I put the plane away. I
  will then turn on the master to see if the charger goes to fast
  charge, which it will do if there is a drain on the battery. So,
  what I deduce is that the charging system has been working up until
  the last flight. It should be easy to troubleshoot the problem. I'll
  post what I find after I find it.

  Any comments on  the suitability of the Powersonic PS 12180 NB
  batteries? I use two of them, they are 18 AH, so I suppose with the
  relatively small load I use in flight, I should have a fair amount
  of reserve if the alternator quits.

  Brian

  The battery voltage when charging should be 13.5 to 14.8. Do you
  have an ammeter in the circuit.

  Paul Lamar

  No ammeter.

  Brian Trubee

   Hi  Paul,
                     Re charging voltage into a 12 volt lead acid
  battery, most car regulators charge at between 13.8 hot weather and 14.4
  cold weather, the regulators are temperature compensated, I have
  found that if they are charging at less than 13.8 v (at least in
  Australia), the batteries will not fully charge, and conversely if
  charged at over
  14.4 v they will boil the guts out of the battery! Of course our
  temperature range is not as extreme as you have in the States;-) .
  Brian, if your voltage is getting that low when the engine is
  running at a moderate speed, your alternator is at fault, probably a
  diode bank has gone to diode heaven!! If the alternator is rated at
  40 amps it should be able to charge enough to keep the voltage above
  13 volts at a current draw of 40 amps, it sounds like you have
  nowhere near that load. If your batteries will start the engine they
  are good enough, just need the alternator to keep them charged,
  sounds like your float charger is keeping them charged then when
  you fly they are going flat!! When flying you should have a minimum
  of 14 volts by the time you have warmed up the engine and taxied to
  takeoff you should have 14 volts.                  John Burey.

 Hi Brian,
  What is the total draw of all you instruments, lights, the fuel pump, etc.
 You may be close to the max output of the alternator and if that is the case
 it will not last. Charge the batteries and if you need to, borrow a multi
 meter with a clamp-on current pickup. You will then be able to measure the
 current the alternator IS putting out and the electrical draw with everything
 required turned on. If a diode pooped the bed, the output will be 2/3 normal
 and the alternator will get hotter than normal.

  I would be inclined to use a Delco 60A alternator. They are bulkier and
 heavier, BUT they are dead simple to repair once you find a place to sell the
 individual parts. Also they use machine screws and nuts to attach all the
 components. A lot of the others require soldering to rebuild and that is a
 major pain in the sit down. There was millions built so cores and parts are
 readily available at recyclers. To me the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.
 But before getting all excited and pulling the alternator off, do the checks
 and find out exactly what the problem is.
 Dale Davies



 What about  using LiFePo batteries as they keep well when not using
 the plane and are much lighter?  There is approx 3,2 V  to a cell so
 any size could be constructed in by 4 cells times X  depending on your
 Ah needs.
 The size I am using for an E-bike have a little less than 1Ah/ cell .
 My Bike runs on 48V  and 15 Ah,  weight 7,5 kgs has 16 cells.
 The guy that builds them will do so to your specs and is one of the
 few Chinese companies that  actually understands the word Service
 ...http://www.pingbattery.com
 They normaly do 24 V and uppwards but their main market is E-bikes and scooters
 However I am ignorant how well that will work with standard  car
 alternators./ Robert

 --
 Robert Lindwall

Call me a chicken, but I wouldn't put a LiPo battery into an airplane I'll be riding
in until they don't appear to be a fire hazard.

If this sounds alarmist, I was just reading how Cessna had spent a huge pile of money
in designing and qualifying a LiPo battery system in one of their Citation Jets..
Just as they were releasing the associated airplane, they had a fire in the battery
system - while the airplane was at a trade show. In response, Cessna issued an AD to
replace the LiPo batteries in all of the airplanes they had just shipped.

There probably is a way to make these things work, but I don't see them as a good
risk yet. Focus on other methods of weight reduction - including that of the flight crew!


Matt-

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