Subject: Batteries
From: rotaryeng
Date: 6/1/2012, 12:06 AM
To: AAAA Put this in the To box


 The alternator checked out OK. The last flight I flew I left both the
   fuel pumps on
   the whole flight. Usually, I only use both when on take off and landing.
   Maybe the
   current draw was too much for the 40 amp alternator. The guy at the
   alternator shop
   said that at and above 2/3 the rated current, the voltage starts
   to drop off. Hmm. I  have two of the fuel pumps that Tracy sells, I
   don't know what the current draw on  them is, a dynon D10- 1 amp
   aproximately, Xcom radio- . 5 amp, Terra transponder- .75  amps,
 EC2  and EM2- ? amps, 4 LS1 coils- ? amps and two 18 AH saturated
 mat batteries.  Maybe time to do a current check on the batteries
 and trade one  out for a new one. I  have a new one, the old ones
 are coming up to  two years old. I have them on a float  charger
 anytime I'm not  running the engine.   Any thoughts?

   Brian Trubee

   You need an ammeter.

   Paul Lamar

   Brian,
               In my opnion you do not need a ammeter as only more
   weight! The voltmeter will tell you what state your battery is, you
   do not really need to know what the alternator is putting out. If
   the voltage is going down and the alt is OK then you alt is not up
   to the job! as dale? said put a clamp-on the alternator output and
 turn  EVERYTHING on and watch the voltmeter and if the draw is more
 than say  30 amps get a bigger alternator or ditch some of the load.
               John Burey .  Get realistic John. The weight is
 ounces. You cannot have too much  information. An ammeter gives an
 instant early warning of what can happen.  If suddenly the ammeter
 shows a discharge the EFI and electronic ignition  engine is  going
 to stop sooner or later. You can then turn off non essential
  electric devices  to give you more time to land. You will instantly
 know if you have solved  the  problem. You can't just pull over to
 the side of road and stop.

   Paul Lamar

  I generally don't like to wire an amp meter in the instrument panel
   as it would require either a 8 or 6 AWG gauge wire for a maximum
   curare of 40a or 50a, respectively .

   A good alternative is to wire in a low voltage warning light in addition
   to the
   voltage meter.

   Joel

   Another alternative is have a red warning light come on when there
   is discharge condition.

   Paul Lamar

   Use an induction coil ammeter with the coil around the main
 battery wire.  Simple, just needs to be calibrated.

   Kevin Alderman

   Paul is correct with the idiot light. Use a LED red. Takes up
 almost no space in the panel and is highly visible when there is a
 problem. Check the voltage the LED is designed for and install a
 dropping resistor in series if required. A lower resistance will let
 it be brighter. Small wire from alternator light terminal to the LED,
  which saves weight.  Note my previous post with Bosch fuel pump
 amps. Could be between 5A and
  15.5A. If yours are in the 15A range times two is 30 plus the panel
 and don't forget lights. You could be at the 40A output. You need to
 try a clamp-on amp meter for test to verify. Even if you measure the
 pump amps times 2.

  Dale Davies

  WTF if weight is an issue empty the change in ya wallet, take a pee
  before flying,  Do your checks, look at your gauges, then fly. you
  know better mate, c'mon. Knowledge is power.

  Graeme Riley

  Let me join in here. Our club planes have had a couple of instances
 where the alternator gave up the ghost, and the ammeter indicated a
 discharge, but the pilot and instructor pilot did not notice the
 little needle moving the wrong way with no other indication -- until
 the radio's started to drop out.

  On the other hand, I have a 'low voltage' light (big flashing
 yellow) that comes on if the voltage on the bus drops below 13.5
 volts, so if the alternator drops out, I get an 'immediate' and hard
 to ignore indication to start checking things. Has happened once,
  and was able to return to hanger to check out the failed alternator.

  I like the light to get your attention -- if installing an ammeter,
 still have the light, because most ammeters are small and
 inconspicuous and easy to miss on a scan.

  Bill Schertz
  KIS Cruiser #4045
  N343BS
  Phase one testing Completed

 I am about to start the wiring harness of my Wheeler- and I plan to include
 more instrumentation than my certified plane had. But selectively
 more. I took apart the Viking partly to re-use some of the parts,
  avionics, etc. part to see exactly what I had paid those IAs to do
 over the years that I legally couldn't do. I was surprised at what I
 found- wires that had insulation missing due to cracking off and age,
  cables that were over half worn, pulley wheels that the bushings
 had fallen completely out of, and the list goes on. I all but gave
 away my Continental IO 520 because I couldn't economically overhaul
 it because of 2 ADs, but I could repair it and fly it after removing
 a tablespoon of metal from the oil. No thanks.

 After owning the Viking for almost 3 years and 250 hours of flying, the
 inadequacy of the electrical system and the engine monitoring system
 were the 2 biggest headaches for me. With that knowledge, my Wheeler
 will be constructed to include some of the certified requirements,
 and some that are OK in experimental but not OK in Certified.

 I have mechanical oil pressure, oil temp and water temp gauges. I
 will also have an electronic data logging system that I can review
 on the ground. The data logging system will record engine parameters,
  as well as G loads, acceleration, atmospheric pressures, temps,
 etc. That part is easy. Part of this system will be an LED like my
 truck has- it says CHECK GAUGES. simple. If something is outside of
 the limits, I get a light and it tells me to look at the panel. I
 much prefer this to the alternative of suddenly seeing steam and
 then all of the coolant is gone, or my alternator quit an hour ago
 and now my engine dies from no spark or electronic ignition.
 Normally, alternator failure wont kill the engine, but add a dead
 battery and it will in our case. So, knowing that the alternator
 just went on vacation is a flight safety issue. Likewise,
  overheating or oil pressure loss is a show stopper, and I want to
 know this ASAP as well.

 A warning light that tells us that something bad has happened or is about
 to happen is good insurance. A distraction, maybe. But so is losing
 an engine on final because of a dead battery, or during climbout due
 to overheating.

 My opinion on the battery issue is this- if your engine is totally
 electronic or electric(i.e. no mechanical ignition system) then I would
 install a battery that will last for a few hours if the alternator goes
 dead. My choice is the AGM Optima batteries that are sold at auto parts
 stores- plenty of CCA, good reserve time, and weight of 34 lbs. Non
 spillable, and will still make power with a hole in it. For $189.00,
 again, cheap insurance.

 Kevin Alderman

 Kevin,
The mechanical gauge for oil and water temps is OK as they are still sealed
from the process. The mechanical oil pressure is a different kettle of fish.
If the oil line to the gauge or the bourdon tube in it leaks in flight you
will probably have at best a mess to clean up when you get on the ground. Us
an electric oil pressure gauge. Just make sure the sensor wire can not vibrate
and break or wear through. Electrical wiring comes in different grades. The
stuff you buy at the local auto parts store is most likely the cheap stuff.
The better and then the best still has the same copper conductor which will be
the same diameter for the gauge used. Where it differs is in the insulation
quality and temperature rating. Go for the best quality. It costs more, but
like the Fram ad said years ago: "pay me now or pay me later".

Dale Davies


-- The Rotary Engine News Letter. Powered by Linux. ACRE NL web site. http://www.rotaryeng.net You Tube key word PaulLamar2 Copyright 1998-2012 All world wide rights reserved.