Subject: Wankel Zenith 750
From: rotaryeng
Date: 6/13/2012, 5:14 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients:;


 I am at present checking into the possibility of using such engines for
 my Zenith 750. I just started the kit, but it will not take me long.
 Past suggestion to me indicated a single rotor 13b is what I need. I
 need about 125 HP + or - ??? The airframe can accept up to 140 HP and
 max 280 lbs. 2 rotors may be too heavy ?
 By going this route, I am really stretching the word "experimental"
 What I am looking for

 1) an engine, and who can overhaul it to aircraft standard.I hear these
 engines are almost as fuel tolerant as turbines. So can I pour anything
 flammable into the gas tank?

 2)engine mount and redrive.(I don't want to go near anything made in
 China!) Standard Cont 0-200 mount I just send the factory a cheque!

 3) ignition system and fuel injection system, (do I need to mix oil with
 gas? what oil are being used for lubing the tip seals?) Canadian company
 called EM-3

 4) the spec for radiator cabin  heater and muffler,I want a warm and
 quiet airplane.

 5) a rough price for the everything Fire Wall Forward. What about
 insurance ?? I already know if it is the FAA in the US, an engine
 like this , they would stick the builder with 40 hours of testing
 instead of 25 hours. So I fly a week more. The standard engine for
 this bird is Cont 0-200, 100 HP, but this bird will eventually go on
 floats, so the extra power will be needed. I am buying the Aviator's
 Guide to Mazda Rotary Conversion  soon. The other choices of engines
 are Corvairs (120HP), Rotex 912 S (used) 100HP, Viking Honda Fit
 engine, Lycoming 0-320 150 HP, but I hate the expensive 1940 technologies.
 Thanks for your help.
 Tony Lam

 An 801 is more suitable for a 2 rotor. See attached pictures.

 Contact Richard Sohn for a one rotor for a 750.
 Richard Sohn  <res12@fairpoint.net
 N2071U
 www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html

 1) Many people can overhaul it as stock is well up to or exceeds aircraft
 standards.
 Gasoline is required. Best is P-port.
 Read: http://www.rotaryeng.net/fund-of-intake.html

 2) Engine mount DoRite in Ventura Ca. Any tig welding shop.
 Read: http://www.rotaryeng.net/mm-instruct.html
 Redrive: Real World Solutions.

 3)Real World Solutions. Mixing 2 cycle oil with gas is best.

 4)Book How To Cool Your Wankel from Mazdatrix or direct from me.

 5)$6,000 to $10,000 US.

 Paul Lamar

 Tony,
             Just a gentle bit of advice, do not go anywhere near the
 Viking engine.  The engine is possibly OK, but the manufacturer and
 support if any is definitely Suspect.  I and 250 others had personal
 experience with the previous Subaru engines.  Again nothing wrong
 with Subaru, but plenty when I PAID $25,000  for a firewall package
 that was never complete, I had to alter things that many times that
 I spent another 4 years in altering the package as the Manufacturer
 continually changed his mind as the clients did all the R & D for
 him.  Before I even flew the 1st package I was informed that the
 PSRU he supplied was junk and he would graciously send me a new
 version for $4.500 plus freight of course.

 If you want verification, I can supply a
 closed web site you can apply to join where what remains of the 250
 "victims"  are still trying to self help each other as Mr
 Eggenfellner refuses to even talk to most of us let alone support
 what he sold.    THe only reason he is still breathing is that he is
 12000 miles away, or he would definitely have been "caressed" with a
 brick.  The only ones who had any support whatever were those who
 lived within driving distance.  He is still sitting on  approx 10
 deposits 0f $10,000 each for propellers that he cannot supply.
  Refunds?  what refunds?

    If you think I am still upset, you should have met me 4 years
 ago. The only thing that has helped  heal the wound are people like
 Paul who are genuine helpers and actually know what they are talking
 about.

 Neil Unger.

 Dear Paul,
 The info below is only useful to anyone North of the border, you
 might not have to bother to send it to everyone.

   I found a site  Atkins Rotary , they are showing a turn key single
 rotor for $8500. But they listed the output at 7000 RPM at only 96 HP??
 I read somewhere a single rotor standard port would easily give 130
 HP.(my target HP) I don't even have to put up with the temperamental
 "P" port. Why they only got 96 HP??

 I am working with an all up weight limit
 of 280 lbs. Someone in the recent past told me a 2 rotors would bust
 that limit easily.I also have to add the redrive and radiator's
 weight as well. I also heard the 13b single rotor engine is hard to
 come by in Canada.I will eventually have to get a US mail box. I
 tried getting the Aviator's Guide to Maz. Rot. from Rot Av, and a
 DVD, what an insult, the int'l shipping for *each* is $36 while the
 DVD is $26 and the Book is $35.They even said that is the best they
 can do.

 The US shipping is $6.
 Both item they could have it in an envelope and give to the post office.
 Another thing we discovered in Canada, the parts shipped by Rot Av
 is a prime example, if they go by UPS, they have their own brokerage
 in Canada, something come in listed as aircraft parts, they tend to put
 some crazy high value on it, a real shock. Amazon US wanted $44 for a
 USED copy!! I have some 4 lettered words for them.

 I recently needed an inside door handle for my Suzuki Sidekick, I found
 one for $2.50 somewhere in Calif.I almost went for it until I found
 out, after the brokerage fees and duties, the result is close to $40
 !! I must get my own US mail box. Now you see why I try to get Canadian
 sources if I can.

 I am fairly satisfied with an engine using mogas, and I am aware it
 is not practical to get the 22:1 compression ratio from the rotary
 for it to self ignite. I still have 2 spark plugs, so if I get the
 diesel/jet A to say 12:1, it will burn with the help of a spark,
 especially if some gas is in the mixture to help. To be able to use
 more than one fuel is always handy, assuming not much extra engine complexities.
 Tony Lam

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

 The p-port is not "temperamental". In fact a RX8 type side exhaust p-
 port intake engine is no more "temperamental" than a stock 13B which
 has a side intake port and p-port exhaust. The reason a p-port
 intake works better than side intake port  is the pressure
 difference across the intake port is lower than that across the
 exhaust port.

 The reason the Atkins one rotor is only 95 HP at 7000 RPM is
 precisely because it is not a P-port intake.

 It is possible to get about 250 HP with 2 rotor at 7500 RPM with a
 bridge port but the porting cost is expensive as is the more
 complicated long intake manifold. It is much better to p-port it and
 be done with the hassle.

 Did you read http://www.rotaryeng.net/fund-of-intake.html  as I
 suggested above?

 The reason I did not suggest a 2 rotor for Zenith 750 above is for
 the FWF  weight reason on the 750. A single rotor also cost more
 money than a two rotor.

 BTW do not change the subject heading if your are talking about the
 same subject. Add the new comments to the end of the thread.

 You are not likely to "get the diesel/jet A to say 12:1". Filling
 the recess in the rotor to increase the CR will likely extinguish
 the flame.

 You are also unlikely to get it run without high pressure direct injection.

 http://www.rotaryeng.net/interesting.html

 I suggest you down load:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzy-cXUDftdrMTFlMDQ5MWItZTc3ZC00YjkxLTg5ODMtMjUyZDcyNWJhOWVm/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

 or http://tinyurl.com/brvpbv6

 Or http://foxed.ca/REbyKenichiYamamoto-1981.pdf

 Or http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rx7manual

 and read them.

 Paul Lamar

 OK Paul, I read that article at the link rotaryeng/fund -of-intake. I
 will have to read it a few more times for more of the contents to
 sink in,plus I need to check out the other sites I got in the same e
 mail. There is not too much of these expertise in Canada it seems.

 I got the idea the standard port is sufficient from this site
 mazdarotary.net/porting, I saw the P port have poor drivability,
 noise, fuel consumption, and narrow power band. Everything I don't
 want, except this is not going into a car. So I can at least knock
 off drivability, power band, I don't know. But it is the ultimate in
 porting. Now I noticed the 130 HP possible from the std port only
 apply to the 12a, Australian RX 2,3,4, what ever that is??? That is
 just what I found, and read. It is by no means saying you are not
 correct, especially now I saw the 12a Australian etc. I am going to
 contact Richard Sohn now, lots of questions to ask him too. Lots to
 read and R and D. Tony

 A street automobile  rotary operates in the 1000 to 6000 RPM range
 and an aircraft rotary operates in the 6000 to 7500 RPM range as
 does a racing rotary engine. Apples and oranges. Drive-ability has
 nothing to do with it in an aircraft.

 The Mazda 1991 24 hour Le Mans winning four rotor not only had a p-
 port it had a fuel quantity limit to run the race on. Everybody had
 the same amount of fuel to work with. Obviously fuel efficiency  was
 enough to beat the who's who of exotic car manufactures. Nobody has
 built a rotary engine with better BSFC so far than Mazda.

 http://www.rotaryeng.net/Mazda_R26B_US.pdf

 The exhaust noise in a 12A, 13B or 3 rotor has nothing to do with
 the type of intake port.

 The 12A, 3 rotor as well as the 13B and RX8 engine all benefit
 equally from  a p-port.

 Paul Lamar


 Tony,
Check RX-7 specialties web site. They are in Calgary some one on here has
dealt with them and said they are reputable. Paul shows how to p-port on the
web site with dimensions to cut the port in or get Jeff to do it. A p-port
single should be in the 125 to 130HP range.
 The 12A Australian is pretty much the same as North American engines. The
earlier engines from Japan had higher HP rating but did not have the emissions
choking them. The worst offender was the thermal reactor on the exhaust.
 The RX2,3,4 was just model designations. RX 2, RX 3, RX 4. Proir to the RX 2
and RX 3 in N. America was the R100 with a 10A engine that was 10mm narrower
than the 12A which is 10mm narrower than the 13B and Renesis. The difference
between the A series engines and B series was predominately the number of
distibutors. There was a short lived 12B. There was also other modifications
involved also.
 I hope that explains a bit for you.

Dale Davies

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