I am at present checking into the possibility of using such engines for
my Zenith 750. I just started the kit, but it will not take me long.
Past suggestion to me indicated a single rotor 13b is what I need. I
need about 125 HP + or - ??? The airframe can accept up to 140 HP and
max 280 lbs. 2 rotors may be too heavy ?
By going this route, I am really stretching the word "experimental"
What I am looking for
1) an engine, and who can overhaul it to aircraft standard.I hear these
engines are almost as fuel tolerant as turbines. So can I pour anything
flammable into the gas tank?
2)engine mount and redrive.(I don't want to go near anything made in
China!) Standard Cont 0-200 mount I just send the factory a cheque!
3) ignition system and fuel injection system, (do I need to mix oil with
gas? what oil are being used for lubing the tip seals?) Canadian company
called EM-3
4) the spec for radiator cabin heater and muffler,I want a warm and
quiet airplane.
5) a rough price for the everything Fire Wall Forward. What about
insurance ?? I already know if it is the FAA in the US, an engine
like this , they would stick the builder with 40 hours of testing
instead of 25 hours. So I fly a week more. The standard engine for
this bird is Cont 0-200, 100 HP, but this bird will eventually go on
floats, so the extra power will be needed. I am buying the Aviator's
Guide to Mazda Rotary Conversion soon. The other choices of engines
are Corvairs (120HP), Rotex 912 S (used) 100HP, Viking Honda Fit
engine, Lycoming 0-320 150 HP, but I hate the expensive 1940 technologies.
Thanks for your help.
Tony Lam
An 801 is more suitable for a 2 rotor. See attached pictures.
Contact Richard Sohn for a one rotor for a 750.
Richard Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net
N2071U
www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
1) Many people can overhaul it as stock is well up to or exceeds aircraft
standards.
Gasoline is required. Best is P-port.
Read: http://www.rotaryeng.net/fund-of-intake.html
2) Engine mount DoRite in Ventura Ca. Any tig welding shop.
Read: http://www.rotaryeng.net/mm-instruct.html
Redrive: Real World Solutions.
3)Real World Solutions. Mixing 2 cycle oil with gas is best.
4)Book How To Cool Your Wankel from Mazdatrix or direct from me.
5)$6,000 to $10,000 US.
Paul Lamar
Tony,
Just a gentle bit of advice, do not go anywhere near the
Viking engine. The engine is possibly OK, but the manufacturer and
support if any is definitely Suspect. I and 250 others had personal
experience with the previous Subaru engines. Again nothing wrong
with Subaru, but plenty when I PAID $25,000 for a firewall package
that was never complete, I had to alter things that many times that
I spent another 4 years in altering the package as the Manufacturer
continually changed his mind as the clients did all the R & D for
him. Before I even flew the 1st package I was informed that the
PSRU he supplied was junk and he would graciously send me a new
version for $4.500 plus freight of course.
If you want verification, I can supply a
closed web site you can apply to join where what remains of the 250
"victims" are still trying to self help each other as Mr
Eggenfellner refuses to even talk to most of us let alone support
what he sold. THe only reason he is still breathing is that he is
12000 miles away, or he would definitely have been "caressed" with a
brick. The only ones who had any support whatever were those who
lived within driving distance. He is still sitting on approx 10
deposits 0f $10,000 each for propellers that he cannot supply.
Refunds? what refunds?
If you think I am still upset, you should have met me 4 years
ago. The only thing that has helped heal the wound are people like
Paul who are genuine helpers and actually know what they are talking
about.
Neil Unger.
Dear Paul,
The info below is only useful to anyone North of the border, you
might not have to bother to send it to everyone.
I found a site Atkins Rotary , they are showing a turn key single
rotor for $8500. But they listed the output at 7000 RPM at only 96 HP??
I read somewhere a single rotor standard port would easily give 130
HP.(my target HP) I don't even have to put up with the temperamental
"P" port. Why they only got 96 HP??
I am working with an all up weight limit
of 280 lbs. Someone in the recent past told me a 2 rotors would bust
that limit easily.I also have to add the redrive and radiator's
weight as well. I also heard the 13b single rotor engine is hard to
come by in Canada.I will eventually have to get a US mail box. I
tried getting the Aviator's Guide to Maz. Rot. from Rot Av, and a
DVD, what an insult, the int'l shipping for *each* is $36 while the
DVD is $26 and the Book is $35.They even said that is the best they
can do.
The US shipping is $6.
Both item they could have it in an envelope and give to the post office.
Another thing we discovered in Canada, the parts shipped by Rot Av
is a prime example, if they go by UPS, they have their own brokerage
in Canada, something come in listed as aircraft parts, they tend to put
some crazy high value on it, a real shock. Amazon US wanted $44 for a
USED copy!! I have some 4 lettered words for them.
I recently needed an inside door handle for my Suzuki Sidekick, I found
one for $2.50 somewhere in Calif.I almost went for it until I found
out, after the brokerage fees and duties, the result is close to $40
!! I must get my own US mail box. Now you see why I try to get Canadian
sources if I can.
I am fairly satisfied with an engine using mogas, and I am aware it
is not practical to get the 22:1 compression ratio from the rotary
for it to self ignite. I still have 2 spark plugs, so if I get the
diesel/jet A to say 12:1, it will burn with the help of a spark,
especially if some gas is in the mixture to help. To be able to use
more than one fuel is always handy, assuming not much extra engine
complexities.
Tony Lam
---------------------------------------------------------------
The p-port is not "temperamental". In fact a RX8 type side exuast p-port
intack engine is no more "temperamental" than a stock 13B which has
a side intake port and p-port exhaust. The reason a p-port intake
works better than side intake port is the pressure difference
across the intake port is lower than that across the exhaust port.
The reason the Atkins one rotor is only 95 HP at 7000 RPM is
precisely because it is not a P-port intake.
It is possible to get about 250 HP with 2 rotor at 7500 RPM with a
bridge port but the porting cost is expensive as is the more
complicated long intake manifold. It is much better to p-port it and
be done with the hassle.
Did you read http://www.rotaryeng.net/fund-of-intake.html as I
suggested above?
The reason I did not suggest a 2 rotor for Zenith 750 above is for
the FWF weight reason on the 750. A single rotor also cost more
money than a two rotor.
BTW do not change the subject heading if your are talking about the
same subject. Add the new comments to the end of the thread.
You are not likely to "get the diesel/jet A to say 12:1". Filling
the recess in the rotor to increase the CR will likely extinguish
the flame.
You are also unlikely to get it run without high pressure direct
injection.
http://www.rotaryeng.net/interesting.html
I suggest you down load:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzy-cXUDftdrMTFlMDQ5MWItZTc3ZC00YjkxLTg5ODMtMjUyZDcyNWJhOWVm/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1
or http://tinyurl.com/brvpbv6
Or http://foxed.ca/REbyKenichiYamamoto-1981.pdf
Or http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rx7manual
and read them.
Paul Lamar
UPS shipping to Canada is a MAJOR ripoff!! The answer is to get to know
someone that would be wiling to accept the goods in the USA and the
repackage/wrap it and send on. A lot of car parts are cheap but the
shipping
does you in as you relate. The answer there lies in ordering more parts
that
will come from the same source location and one box. The source location is
important as if they source another location you pay two shipping fees or
more. Here I have had a problem with delivery with DHL. Some companies
insist
on shipping with them but the parts may not show up in a day or two as they
should. The driver may insist they delivered if they can sign the delivery.
Then a week or so later they show up after you received the second order.
If a
company insists on shipping DHL I tell them to not bother and I will find
another source for the part. Many times you can get an equivalent
replacement
that the supplier is more flexible.
Dale Davies
After almost 2 weeks of research, and reading much of the stuff I get off
the web,
including a lot from you, it is starting to look like I cannot use a
rotary engine in
my bird.
Rotary engines are rare to start with, most of them are 2 rotor 13b's or
larger,
which put it well out of the weight range of 280 lb. for Z750. The drones
use a much
less powerful engine, like 75 HP. The single rotor 13b are very rare. I
either have
to use P port or force feed it with turbo to get the 130 HP I want.Atkins
got a 13b
single rotor, but it is standard port, that's why it is only 96 HP at 7000
rpm,
that's what you told me. They want $8500 for that alone. Same price as
some Honda
engines. It is disappointed the rotary does not have as much weight
advantage as I
hoped from such simple design.The Rotex UL's and Jabirus are still king in
this category.
Another thing I have to consider is resale value, with a common aircraft
engine in
front, it is easier to sell, with an odd ball, it is rare to find someone
with
similar experimental spirits.I have both mechanical and electrical trade
qualifications, and I fix a lot of cars in the past, not many builders out
there
would be as inclined to experiment as I am. Still, I have limits. It is not
comforting to get an engine from say Richard, and when I get trouble, he
is not
available. William Wayne (Corvair authority)also gave me similar feelings,
he does
not answer e mails.
I am at the age my medical is always questionable, Canada did not have the
equivalent
of light sport with only a driver's license needed yet. If I get hassles
with my
medical, I just got a 1320 lb paper weight.
Rotary are good engines, but these days, just because it is a good design,
the world
does not beat a path to the door.It will still take a lot of marketing
tech support
and sales to get over the minimum number threshold for it to really take
off.
I have never totally given up the idea I may still need a piston engine. I
left that
door open.
At least I have time on my side, I will not need an engine for a few
months.See what
the be mail bring next.
Thanks to you and Neil Unger, The info you gave me are well worth it.
I often wondered in the past why someone who did a lot of work on Subaru
engines
would distance himself from the old company and start a new one to sell
Honda
engines, instead of simply add a new product to the same company, he must
be running
away from many lawyers,my suspicion you confirmed.
Tony Lam
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will finds it difficult to bring any car piston engine over 100 HP in
under 280
pounds FWF with the exception of a VW but that is a far cary from 100HP.
If you drive down to the states you can find a 13B easy. You can put the
bare block
in the trunk as it alone is less than 200 pounds. There is no duty on auto
parts.
Find a machine shop to cut down the e-shaft to a one rotor. You can get a
p-port
rotor housing from Jeff. Rotaries are very easy to work on.
Paul Lamar
Just a thought. If I was wanting to run a rotary on diesel or vegetable
oil I wouldn't change
the rotor. I would put a positive displacement supercharger on the intake
side of the engine.
At 15 PSI you would double the effective compression ratio. Then put the
injector in the
leading plug location and leave the plug fireing in the trailing position.
This would also flow
a larger volume of air through the engine for more power. Two stroke
diesels like the
Deltahawk have a supercharger to aid in starting and a turbocharger as
well for more HP
at higher operating speeds. It takes HP to compress air for diesel
ignition. Shareing the
pumping between the rotor and a supercharger is just another way to get
there.
george grimes
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