I am at present checking into the possibility of using such
engines for my Zenith 750. I just started the kit, but it will not
take me long. Past suggestion to me indicated a single rotor 13b
is what I need. I need about 125 HP + or - ??? The airframe can
accept up to 140 HP and max 280 lbs. 2 rotors may be too heavy ?
By going this route, I am really stretching the word "experimental"
What I am looking for
1) an engine, and who can overhaul it to aircraft standard.I hear
these engines are almost as fuel tolerant as turbines. So can I
pour anything flammable into the gas tank?
2)engine mount and redrive.(I don't want to go near anything made
in China!) Standard Cont 0-200 mount I just send the factory a cheque!
3) ignition system and fuel injection system, (do I need to mix
oil with gas? what oil are being used for lubing the tip seals?)
Canadian company called EM-3
4) the spec for radiator cabin heater and muffler,I want a warm and
quiet airplane.
5) a rough price for the everything Fire Wall Forward. What about
insurance ?? I already know if it is the FAA in the US, an engine
like this , they would stick the builder with 40 hours of testing
instead of 25 hours. So I fly a week more. The standard engine for
this bird is Cont 0-200, 100 HP, but this bird will eventually go
on floats, so the extra power will be needed. I am buying the Aviator's
Guide to Mazda Rotary Conversion soon. The other choices of engines
are Corvairs (120HP), Rotex 912 S (used) 100HP, Viking Honda Fit
engine, Lycoming 0-320 150 HP, but I hate the expensive 1940 technologies.
Thanks for your help.
Tony Lam
An 801 is more suitable for a 2 rotor. See attached pictures.
Contact Richard Sohn for a one rotor for a 750.
Richard Sohn<res12@fairpoint.net
N2071U
www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
1) Many people can overhaul it as stock is well up to or exceeds aircraft
standards.
Gasoline is required. Best is P-port.
Read: http://www.rotaryeng.net/fund-of-intake.html
2) Engine mount DoRite in Ventura Ca. Any tig welding shop.
Read: http://www.rotaryeng.net/mm-instruct.html
Redrive: Real World Solutions.
3)Real World Solutions. Mixing 2 cycle oil with gas is best.
4)Book How To Cool Your Wankel from Mazdatrix or direct from me.
5)$6,000 to $10,000 US.
Paul Lamar
Tony,
Just a gentle bit of advice, do not go anywhere near the
Viking engine. The engine is possibly OK, but the manufacturer
and support if any is definitely Suspect. I and 250 others had personal
experience with the previous Subaru engines. Again nothing wrong
with Subaru, but plenty when I PAID $25,000 for a firewall
package that was never complete, I had to alter things that many
times that I spent another 4 years in altering the package as the Manufacturer
continually changed his mind as the clients did all the R& D for
him. Before I even flew the 1st package I was informed that the
PSRU he supplied was junk and he would graciously send me a new
version for $4.500 plus freight of course.
If you want verification, I can supply a
closed web site you can apply to join where what remains of the
250 "victims" are still trying to self help each other as Mr
Eggenfellner refuses to even talk to most of us let alone support
what he sold. THe only reason he is still breathing is that he is
12000 miles away, or he would definitely have been "caressed" with
a brick. The only ones who had any support whatever were those
who lived within driving distance. He is still sitting on approx
10 deposits 0f $10,000 each for propellers that he cannot supply.
Refunds? what refunds?
If you think I am still upset, you should have met me 4 years
ago. The only thing that has helped heal the wound are people
like Paul who are genuine helpers and actually know what they are talking
about.
Neil Unger.
Dear Paul,
The info below is only useful to anyone North of the border, you
might not have to bother to send it to everyone.
I found a site Atkins Rotary , they are showing a turn key single
rotor for $8500. But they listed the output at 7000 RPM at only
96 HP?? I read somewhere a single rotor standard port would easily
give 130 HP.(my target HP) I don't even have to put up with the temperamental
"P" port. Why they only got 96 HP??
I am working with an all up weight limit
of 280 lbs. Someone in the recent past told me a 2 rotors would bust
that limit easily.I also have to add the redrive and radiator's
weight as well. I also heard the 13b single rotor engine is hard
to come by in Canada.I will eventually have to get a US mail box.
I tried getting the Aviator's Guide to Maz. Rot. from Rot Av, and
a DVD, what an insult, the int'l shipping for *each* is $36 while the
DVD is $26 and the Book is $35.They even said that is the best
they can do.
The US shipping is $6.
Both item they could have it in an envelope and give to the post office.
Another thing we discovered in Canada, the parts shipped by Rot Av
is a prime example, if they go by UPS, they have their own brokerage
in Canada, something come in listed as aircraft parts, they tend
to put some crazy high value on it, a real shock. Amazon US wanted
$44 for a USED copy!! I have some 4 lettered words for them.
I recently needed an inside door handle for my Suzuki Sidekick, I
found one for $2.50 somewhere in Calif.I almost went for it until
I found out, after the brokerage fees and duties, the result is
close to $40 !! I must get my own US mail box. Now you see why I
try to get Canadian sources if I can.
I am fairly satisfied with an engine using mogas, and I am aware
it is not practical to get the 22:1 compression ratio from the rotary
for it to self ignite. I still have 2 spark plugs, so if I get the
diesel/jet A to say 12:1, it will burn with the help of a spark,
especially if some gas is in the mixture to help. To be able to
use more than one fuel is always handy, assuming not much extra
engine complexities. Tony Lam
---------------------------------------------------------------
The p-port is not "temperamental". In fact a RX8 type side exuast
p-port intack engine is no more "temperamental" than a stock 13B
which has a side intake port and p-port exhaust. The reason a p-
port intake works better than side intake port is the pressure difference
across the intake port is lower than that across the exhaust port.
The reason the Atkins one rotor is only 95 HP at 7000 RPM is
precisely because it is not a P-port intake.
It is possible to get about 250 HP with 2 rotor at 7500 RPM with a
bridge port but the porting cost is expensive as is the more
complicated long intake manifold. It is much better to p-port it and
be done with the hassle.
Did you read http://www.rotaryeng.net/fund-of-intake.html as I
suggested above?
The reason I did not suggest a 2 rotor for Zenith 750 above is for
the FWF weight reason on the 750. A single rotor also cost more
money than a two rotor.
BTW do not change the subject heading if your are talking about
the same subject. Add the new comments to the end of the thread.
You are not likely to "get the diesel/jet A to say 12:1". Filling
the recess in the rotor to increase the CR will likely extinguish
the flame.
You are also unlikely to get it run without high pressure direct injection.
http://www.rotaryeng.net/interesting.html
I suggest you down load:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzy-cXUDftdrMTFlMDQ5MWItZTc3ZC00YjkxLTg5ODMtMjUyZDcyNWJhOWVm/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1
or http://tinyurl.com/brvpbv6
Or http://foxed.ca/REbyKenichiYamamoto-1981.pdf
Or http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rx7manual
and read them.
Paul Lamar
UPS shipping to Canada is a MAJOR ripoff!! The answer is to get
to know someone that would be wiling to accept the goods in the USA
and the repackage/wrap it and send on. A lot of car parts are cheap
but the shipping does you in as you relate. The answer there lies
in ordering more parts that will come from the same source location
and one box. The source location is important as if they source
another location you pay two shipping fees or more. Here I have had
a problem with delivery with DHL. Some companies insist on shipping
with them but the parts may not show up in a day or two as they
should. The driver may insist they delivered if they can sign the delivery.
Then a week or so later they show up after you received the second
order. If a company insists on shipping DHL I tell them to not
bother and I will find another source for the part. Many times you
can get an equivalent replacement that the supplier is more flexible.
Dale Davies
After almost 2 weeks of research, and reading much of the stuff I
get off the web, including a lot from you, it is starting to look
like I cannot use a rotary engine in my bird.
Rotary engines are rare to start with, most of them are 2 rotor
13b's or larger, which put it well out of the weight range of 280
lb. for Z750. The drones use a much less powerful engine, like 75
HP. The single rotor 13b are very rare. I either have to use P port
or force feed it with turbo to get the 130 HP I want.Atkins got a
13b single rotor, but it is standard port, that's why it is only 96
HP at 7000 rpm, that's what you told me. They want $8500 for that
alone. Same price as some Honda engines. It is disappointed the
rotary does not have as much weight advantage as I hoped from such
simple design.The Rotex UL's and Jabirus are still king in this category.
Another thing I have to consider is resale value, with a common
aircraft engine in front, it is easier to sell, with an odd ball, it
is rare to find someone with similar experimental spirits.I have
both mechanical and electrical trade qualifications, and I fix a lot
of cars in the past, not many builders out there would be as
inclined to experiment as I am. Still, I have limits. It is not
comforting to get an engine from say Richard, and when I get trouble,
he is not available. William Wayne (Corvair authority)also gave me
similar feelings, he does not answer e mails.
I am at the age my medical is always questionable, Canada did not
have the equivalent of light sport with only a driver's license
needed yet. If I get hassles with my medical, I just got a 1320 lb
paper weight.
Rotary are good engines, but these days, just because it is a good
design, the world does not beat a path to the door.It will still
take a lot of marketing tech support and sales to get over the
minimum number threshold for it to really take off.
I have never totally given up the idea I may still need a piston
engine. I left that door open. At least I have time on my side, I
will not need an engine for a few months.See what the be mail bring next.
Thanks to you and Neil Unger, The info you gave me are well worth
it. I often wondered in the past why someone who did a lot of work
on Subaru engines would distance himself from the old company and
start a new one to sell Honda engines, instead of simply add a new
product to the same company, he must be running away from many
lawyers,my suspicion you confirmed. Tony Lam
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will finds it difficult to bring any car piston engine over 100
HP in under 280 pounds FWF with the exception of a VW but that is a
far cary from 100HP.
If you drive down to the states you can find a 13B easy. You can
put the bare block in the trunk as it alone is less than 200 pounds.
There is no duty on auto parts. Find a machine shop to cut down the
e-shaft to a one rotor. You can get a p-port rotor housing from
Jeff. Rotaries are very easy to work on.
Paul Lamar
I found a link to a guy who built a single rotor wankel engine for
his plane. http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/html/one_rotor_wankel.html
Ed Hensel
That's Richard Sohn. He is on this list.
Paul Lamar
The "no duty" to Canada may or may not be correct. There is no duty on parts
made in the continental USA. If it was made in Japan you MAY have to pay duty
as if you were bringing it from Japan, or other source country. It is part of
the "free trade agreement". If Canada has an agreement with the source country
there likely would not be duty. Best is to check with customs in advance. The
duty on a used core engine would not be high and the duty calculated on the
bill of sale OR customs known value. They likely do not know a value of a
rotary core.
Dale Davies
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